Recording Old School

Longshot · #1 07-04-2010, 08:25 AM

Had the pleasure of laying down some bass tracks for a friend of mine's new CD. And THIS is what we recorded to.

The sound was AMAZING! I have become a true believer now of recording to analog first. From here they will blow each track into pro tools and master from there.

I have now set up to borrow a 4 track reel-to-reel from the owner of this 8 track so I can record my own bass tracks in the same way. It's amazing the sound you get out of your bass when you can saturate the tape as vivid as we did.

Now the only thing I am missing is how to sync the tape deck to logic. I THINK you do it with MIDI time code. I'll keep you all posted on this journey.

fu22ba55 · #2 07-04-2010, 08:40 AM

One inch of tape per 8 tracks was always my favorite format. Two-inch 16-track machines are MIGHTY. I always found two-inch 24 tracks to be too much of a hassle, too much demand on the tape, etc... requiring way too much adjustment. I prefer two-inch 16s to two-inch 24s.

Tape cost, however, I do not miss at all.

Longshot · #3 07-04-2010, 09:59 AM

That's the cool part of it all. Cost of tape has gone down a great deal. You can get a 1200 ft length of master quality 1/4 inch tape for about $30-$40 now.

BTW does anyone out there have any tips on how to synch up a Mac pro running logic to a reel to reel using Midi time code?

jonathanhughes · #4 07-04-2010, 10:10 AM

There are probably other ways, but you could use a MIDI interface capable of generating SMPTE time code (like a MOTU MIDI Timepiece), and then you'd lay down the time code on one of the tracks of the tape, and sync the computer up to that. The problem with this is that you lose one track of tape, and if the heads aren't aligned properly, you could get some bleed from the timecode track onto the adjacent track.

You could always record all the stuff that benefits from analog on the 8 tracks, and then dump them all down into Logic and do the overdubs there.

Or, you could record 8 tracks, mix them down to stereo in logic, and then dump that back onto tape, so you'd have 6 free tracks for overdubs (of course, you've got to get your mix right (although you could do some rebouncing and then align everything in Logic).

Also, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wmdD...ext=1&index=30

ninepoundjammer · #5 07-04-2010, 10:33 AM

+1

This is what I've been recording on lately. We're mixing on the console though, think I'd prefer flying into protools for mixing, as you're doing.

Can't beat the sound though.

Longshot · #6 07-04-2010, 11:04 AM

These are great suggestions. Thanks to everyone. I will let you all know how this works.

Longshot · #7 07-04-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninepoundjammer

+1

This is what I've been recording on lately. We're mixing on the console though, think I'd prefer flying into protools for mixing, as you're doing.

Can't beat the sound though.

Nice deck. Do you record direct with that our are you micing you amp?

Charling · #8 07-04-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot

Nice deck. Do you record direct with that our are you micing you amp?

You'd need to use a preamp whatever you use, going direct into the machine itself isn't likely to work! Tape ins are line ins, more or less. So DI>preamp>tape or amp>preamp>tape, the pros and cons of each are the same as with digital recording!

The standard way to sync is as jonathanhughes suggested. There ARE other ways but you'll need a tape machine with some good sync gear on it. The beauty of SMPTE is that it is very simple and it doesn't require anything of the tape machine apart from 1 spare track. Bleed shouldn't be a problem as the code doesn't need to be recorded loud, but a mistake CAN lead to bleed and then it can be hard to get rid of completely because its such an piercing tone! If you have good tape and a good erase head it should be fine though, and a good alignment of course.

Yeah you can get 1/4" tape for a good price, and 1" seems pretty reasonable too. Pity 2" is not, with prices easily hitting $300 and up!

Its so great though. Its definately one for people not afraid of spending some cash, and is certainly a luxurey-extra in most modern studio set-ups. but if you have a nice set-up, like the sound and have some cash to drop on a new toy then I can't reccommend tape enough! Its a real great way of getting musicians (and engineers!) to COMMIT to a take, it really enforces the 'this the the performace aspect' of it. You can edit after (once in the computer) of course but theres nothing like the feeling of 'tape is rolling, this is it....'.

You can get some bargains as well on the actual machine, I saw a studer a807 go for £100, 2 studer a820's for £300 each, all in good condition! Just don't have the space at home and the studio already has 5

You have access to some great overall characteristics by things like tweaking the overbias a bit as well!]

Make sure you have a GOOD look at the heads and give the transport a rigourous test before buying!

Longshot · #9 07-04-2010, 09:31 PM

Thanks for all the input. This is all going to help a lot and I'll keep you posted on what happens. I hopefully will pick up the deck this week. I'm also hoping that my friend is going to have some sync gear to help me out with.

I'm just glad that I work at a place that stocks the tape so I can get it cheap.

This is going to be so cool!

Longshot · #10 07-05-2010, 08:48 AM

Just for fun here are some more pics from that session. We go back next Saturday to clean a couple tracks up. It is the most fun I've had on a recording project. Enjoy the pics!

Me laying down some bass.

Setting up the guitar cab mic

Ron testing the guitar levels

Lonya the engineer writing a track sheet

Lonya at the console

Charling · #11 07-13-2010, 07:41 PM

^^

Looks awesome!

Just finished a session at work where we had the pleasure of using the studer 24 track all session. So many producers either miss the tape machine altogether or just use it for initial takes then dump to pro tools. This guy was a real analog junkie so was fine to stay analog the whole way! Much fun, It sounded great, heres some pics of the machine...

Longshot · #12 07-13-2010, 08:21 PM

Very nice. We have one of those studers at work as well. Although I know it works (I saw it work when we first got it) it's not hooked up to the console at all. Kinda there for show.

I'll try to remember to take some pics at work tomorrow.

Where do you work if I may ask?

ninepoundjammer · #13 07-13-2010, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot

Nice deck. Do you record direct with that our are you micing you amp?

Recording two tracks: direct off a Millennia TD-1 and an amp track. Actually not a huge difference between the tracks -- that Millennia sounds really good -- but we've been using a mix of both unless the track is really busy and we just use the direct track to keep things more under control.

Charling · #14 07-14-2010, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot

Very nice. We have one of those studers at work as well. Although I know it works (I saw it work when we first got it) it's not hooked up to the console at all. Kinda there for show.

I'll try to remember to take some pics at work tomorrow.

Where do you work if I may ask?

Yeah they are great! Many say they are the best tape machine you can get, my experiences haven't offered any contest to this

I just wish we had the 16 track heads as well as the 24, a 16 track A827 would be off the hook!

Its worth keeping yours in good condition. They were $60'000 new, but now people are moving them on for $6000 or less. Its kinda sad... but I'm sure the price will go mad in later years as they start to become less and less, and the A827 will be particularly sought after.

I work at Leeders Farm in Norfolk, UK, theres a link to our site in my sig

ridgeback · #15 07-14-2010, 03:25 AM

excellent stuff..much more "live" feel from recording imo..i just think you can just feel the music much more when you listen to the finished product..look forward to the update