Recording sounds AWFUL, need help!

[Cryhavok]

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to get some bass recordings for my band done through my own PC. As soon as I line-in to the PC, my sound goes to crud. It comes out sounding really buzzy (especially on the low end), watery and flat. I play pick bass and I'm trying to get a clean, crisp, and crunchy sounding bass.

Here's my equipment setup:
-Ibanez GSR-200
-Tech21 SansAmp Bass DI
-Crate something or other 60W amp

PC Side:
-Creative SB Audigy Platinum-eX (not Audigy 2!)
-AMD 64 X2 4200+
-Adobe Audition

I realize my equipment isn't the greatest for recording, but I also have an Ampeg BA-115 back in the studio where I normally record. Previously, I've gotten decent recordings with the direct-out on the Ampeg, but that was before I got the DI.

I've tried running the bass alone to the PC, the bass + DI to the PC, and the bass + DI + crate amp. I'd like to lug my Ampeg here and try that, but as of right now it seems like the issues are on the PC end. The sound coming out of the DI + amp is fine. Im pretty much just using the amp for the speaker and letting the DI do the work. I'm not trying to get the greatest sound possible, just something workable. But like I said, it keeps coming out with a lot of buzz, almost as if it's overloaded.

Any suggestions?

[Spinal Tapper]

Try a better bass???

[fenderhutz]

Line 6 Guitar Port or TonePort.

I did everything including drums with one of those at www.tellhazelrun.com

You are getting digital clipping from what you describe, your signal is too hot.

[detracti]

You could be too hot on your input to the hardware. Does that card come with a system tray tool for setting input gain?

You can be overloading at the card, and no matter how you set levels in Audition, it will still be all broken up.

[Cryhavok]

Spinal: I agree. But, I've never had any problems recording with this bass in the past, so I don't think thats the problem. www.myspace.com/teamliftrock for proof.

Fenderhutz & detracti: It does seem like my input signal is too hot, but I've got my DI and amp eq's flat, and my gains/levels set in the mid-range. I'll look at lowering the input gain, but I'm passing in a pretty weak signal for it to be coming out so overloaded sounding. Its hard to explain, but its almost like it sounds overloaded or too gainy without being so...

[Bearded Bugs]

So you're pretty sure it's not your "line-in" volume turned up too high in the system tray volume settings thingy majigy?

[chroma601]

And of course you're not on the mic input...
(I've done that...)

[Cryhavok]

Thanks for all the posts so far.

I'm about 50% sure its not the line-in volume. I've turned it down previously, and it was the same sound, just quieter. But, I'll try it again when I get home from work.

I'm on the line-in input, which I think Creative also calls a Mic input. But, I've also tried it on the auxillary (RCA) input, and its the same sound.

[namraj]

You're problem: PC
Sorry
I'm a mac head, i agree with all the posts above (exept get a better bass, thats not gunna make everything distort) Sounds like your signal's too hot, have you tryed turning the output volume on ur bass down?

[MrDOS]

"buzzy, watery and flat"

What does this really mean?

[Cryhavok]

The bass volume is set just above 0. I literally turn the knob so ever slightly until I get sound. Bass boost and tone knobs are both set to zip.

I don't see how I can possibly be overloading the input to the PC.

MrDos: it's hard to explain. I can record something and put it somewhere and link to it, so you guys can have an idea of what I mean. Otherwise, I don't really know how to describe it.

[hunta]

You need a recording interface. Save yourself the trouble of troubleshooting your computer's sound card which was never meant to be used for recording an instrument.

[JohnDavisNYC]

well, the short version of the problem lies in the fact that you have a terrible soundcard that you are trying to use as an audio interface. the long version of the story is that you are probably trying to send +4 balanced signal (from the sansamp) at line level into either a -10 unbalanced line input, or, even worse, an unbalanced mic level input in the soundcard. all that matters in this case, is that you are distorting the input to your soundcard, and that soundcard is not a professional device designed to handle 'real' audio. even if there are settings you can change in a control panel, they most likely are not affecting the analog input stages, but are simply dsp manipulations of whatever hits the converters... in a situation like this, 'turning down' anything via software (unless the card has software controlled analog gain stages, highly unlikely in a cheap soundcard) is simply turning it down in the digital domain, which cannot have any affect on the ammount of distortion present from the analog to digital conversion.

the world of recording and engineering is a vast and formidable wasteland full of countless ways to spend huge sums of money.

the first thing you need to do is buy as many books about recording and digital audio as you can afford.

the you need to read them all... then read them again!

hang out on some recording message boards to learn about some of the gear and try to find out what sort of audio interface people in a similar situation as you are using. i would probably recommend a cheap m-audio interface, so that you have the option of using any daw software you choose. the tapeop messageboard is full of helpful people, many of whom are doing cool stuff with very cheap and minimal setups.

i hope that helps a bit, but really, recording is such a huge world and is so cheap now, you owe it to yourself to do some reading and buy a decent audio interface.

cheers,
john

[musicelectronix]

Ok these are my opinions, no offense:

1- Recording interfaces = overrated marketting hype. A simple A/D converter with less than decent preamp thingies (most of them based on eproms, rather than audio designed preamps). USB technology isn't stable enough for recording as firewire (salute to the MAC guy). If you are willing to pay more than 2 grands, you can get a decent one, but then again you can get *any* decent recording hardware with that money.

2- you may go direct with sansamp, it should be decent. If it is not, you got something wrong. Soundblaster family is known for *outrages* latency issues (or not, I can't be sure as I stopped trying somewhere along).

a- I will state the obvious first. What do you use for monitoring? Maybe the digital sound is ok, but what your speakers do not deliver low end response that well.

b- Which operating system? If it is Vista, you *will* have problems with recording.

c- I personally didn't tried audition, I have a vague memory of Cool Edit (former name of that software before adobe bought the rights). Try recording with a simpler one-channel software and see if it sounds the same. IF not, you may need calibrate the Audition for sampling rates and other stuff. These DAW software do not go thru the windows mixer, but they are controlled by APIs (or other words, works directly with windows core) and most of the time they need to be adjusted a little.

d- Record something and examine the Wave profile (the shape of the sound). Generally all of it should be under -6dB. See if it is above that. You should be ok with 0dB, but it is risky to do so. Check that if any spikes go over the limits. The most common indication is if the wave profile looks squished, then you should turn down the input volume.

e- check your cable that is between the sansamp and the box. Do not use adapters (i.e. 1/4 to 3.5mm). Use regular cable, with 1/4 mono male is at the one end and 3.5mm mono at the other end.

These are all I can think of, but keep in mind, with the equipment you have, you will never get satisfactory results.

[musicelectronix]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

well, the short version of the problem lies in the fact that you have a terrible soundcard that you are trying to use as an audio interface. the long version of the story is that you are probably trying to send +4 balanced signal (from the sansamp) at line level into either a -10 unbalanced line input, or, even worse, an unbalanced mic level input in the soundcard. all that matters in this case, is that you are distorting the input to your soundcard, and that soundcard is not a professional device designed to handle 'real' audio. even if there are settings you can change in a control panel, they most likely are not affecting the analog input stages, but are simply dsp manipulations of whatever hits the converters... in a situation like this, 'turning down' anything via software (unless the card has software controlled analog gain stages, highly unlikely in a cheap soundcard) is simply turning it down in the digital domain, which cannot have any affect on the ammount of distortion present from the analog to digital conversion.

the world of recording and engineering is a vast and formidable wasteland full of countless ways to spend huge sums of money.

the first thing you need to do is buy as many books about recording and digital audio as you can afford.

the you need to read them all... then read them again!

hang out on some recording message boards to learn about some of the gear and try to find out what sort of audio interface people in a similar situation as you are using. i would probably recommend a cheap m-audio interface, so that you have the option of using any daw software you choose. the tapeop messageboard is full of helpful people, many of whom are doing cool stuff with very cheap and minimal setups.

i hope that helps a bit, but really, recording is such a huge world and is so cheap now, you owe it to yourself to do some reading and buy a decent audio interface.

cheers,
john

and +1 to this post.

[BlackLake]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Line 6 Guitar Port or TonePort.

You are getting digital clipping from what you describe, your signal is too hot.

+1, In my home studio, thats what I use.

The other night I did a great recording for fun..., crisp, clear, vibrant.

They work great, and they're cheap.

[hunta]

Originally Posted by musicelectronix

1- Recording interfaces = overrated marketting hype. A simple A/D converter with less than decent preamp thingies (most of them based on eproms, rather than audio designed preamps). USB technology isn't stable enough for recording as firewire (salute to the MAC guy). If you are willing to pay more than 2 grands, you can get a decent one, but then again you can get *any* decent recording hardware with that money.

No pro studios use recording interfaces, that stuff is just a scam baby!

Huh? Overrated marketing hype? Explain?

[musicelectronix]

Originally Posted by hunta

No pro studios use recording interfaces, that stuff is just a scam baby!

Huh? Overrated marketing hype? Explain?

What I said above agrees with you or you are actually confirming what I said, you got that, right?

At this context, it means they are trying to sell it as a direct replacement for more conventional recording hardware. They do not say "it is as good as this", but given it is a newer technology, people assumes that they are better. In fact, most of the devices that converts analog sound signal to digital and transfers it as data via USB or Firewire are simply "much more" inferior to analog recording interfaces. There are more than few exceptions, but they are not cheap or readily available.

[hunta]

Originally Posted by musicelectronix

What I said above agrees with you or you are actually confirming what I said, you got that, right?

At this context, it means they are trying to sell it as a direct replacement for more conventional recording hardware. They do not say "it is as good as this", but given it is a newer technology, people assumes that they are better. In fact, most of the devices that converts analog sound signal to digital and transfers it as data via USB or Firewire are simply "much more" inferior to analog recording interfaces. There are more than few exceptions, but they are not cheap or readily available.

No, you aren't being very clear in what you're badmouthing. It sounds like you're either:
A) Badmouthing digital in general.
B) Badmouthing cheap AD/DA converters.
C) Badmouthing cheap preamps.
D) Badmouthing home studios in general.

Which is it? Or are you Steve Albini.

PS: Your website needs a "Skip Intro" button at the beginning of the flash intro.

[Cryhavok]

hunta - I'm pretty sure it's more like E) Badmouthing recording interfaces, in general.

But anyway, I played with everything a LOT last night. The only way I was able to get a decent sound out was to turn my input volume wayyy down, then normalize it post-recording. This leaves it with a pretty low SNR, so overall it didn't end up sounding much better. Noise reduction in Audition does a pretty good job at cleaning it up, but it leaves the tone pretty stale. Since it seemed like the input was being overloaded, I have my eq set pretty crappy, and any attempts to make a better tone just result in a bad recording.

Also, I think a lot of it had to do with my headphones. It sounded a lot better coming through my speakers than it did through the headphones. They're pretty good headphones (Sennheiser eh250), so I can't imagine why it was sounding so bad through the headphones, but I'm guessing there was just too much bass.