Recording tips... not gear related

[pmaraziti]

I've read the recording 101 but I think it doesn't answer my questions.

I'm an amateur bassist and new to recording an album, but with my band we're trying to record our first album.
All recording is going to be done through our home studio made of some digital equipment, I'm using a Mac with Logic Pro 8 on it.

As I'm recording my first tracks, I'm starting to wonder on best practices and have some specific questions I'm sure many can help me with...
All I can promise back is a free copy of our album when we'll have it ready !

1. While recording the bass, do you split the song in sections and record each section separately (with multiple takes for each section and then you "assemble" the whole track) or do you record the whole bass track at once ?

2. I use sometime heavy effects in my bass parts, usually are uses on for section of the song and not the whole song. When applying affects:

* Do you do that by recording first the bass w/o effects and then applying effects on top or do you record the bass parts already with the effects applied?
* In case you apply affects after recording the “natural” bass first, do you use usually software plugins or do you send the “natural” recorded bass to the effect chain (e.g. your pedalboard) and record the output back ?

Thanks so much in advance!

[Corey Y]

There's no one way to do anything, just depends on what's convenient for you and/or best achieves the result you want. Logic allows you to do several takes on one track and comp them together (and adjust the crossfade if you like, though in my experience the default setting is fine) by selecting splice points on each take. You can do several takes and pick the best parts or you can play each section individually and splice them together. When I do that sort of thing for my own performance or recording others I usually suggest a little overlap with the part before and after. You can always record as many different tracks as you need, one for each section of the song if you like and send them all to one buss for processing. Logic offers a lot of options to get to the same end result different ways.

As far as effects go it probably depends on what they are and how you plan on using them. If you have a specific piece of hardware that gets the sound you want or there's an expression pedal involved it's probably best to have the effect running while you record. If Logic or a specific plug-in has the effect you want and it sounds good to your ear you can always apply it later, but probably best to play around and find out first. You can also record everything direct and reamp to your rig and whatever effects you like later and spend time dialing everything in without committing to a sound before you hit record. Lots of different ways to skin a cat, as they say. If you're able to I would record a DI track as a safety, in addition to any microphone or amp direct sounds you might record. That way if you don't like the recorded sound reamping or processing in Logic is always an option.

[M0ses]

There are many ways to do everything in the studio. What you definitely want to be able to do, though, it play it right the first time.

[pgolliher]

+1 to using a a DI and a mic signal for bass. I also recommend using compression on the bass track (I like about a 4:1 ratio).

Also, one thing that has really helped my home recordings is to make a copy of the vocal track. Compression on both tracks, but then add other effects (reverb, etc) to only one. When mixing, get the dry track up to where it sounds good (volume) and then bring up the FX track up to taste. This way, your vocals still stand out front and also have reverb to sound nice and full.
One drag about being the bass player-in my experience, the bass and drums get about two takes per song and then the guitar player and singer will spend 4 times longer to finish their tracks than what was planned. Best of luck, hope your album is a success!

[M0ses]

Originally Posted by pgolliher

One drag about being the bass player-in my experience, the bass and drums get about two takes per song and then the guitar player and singer will spend 4 times longer to finish their tracks than what was planned. Best of luck, hope your album is a success!

That's a good thing! Do you want to spend two hours getting the drums miced just right? Do you want to play the same solo twenty times trying to get it right? No, I want to set up my DI in thirty seconds, play one or two takes, do it right the first time, and move on to mastering. Why can't the rest of the band be as efficient as I am?

[chuck norriss]

I prefer to play through a song. Of course you can patch in the sections you want to revise or retake. Whatever it takes to make coherent, cohesive piece of work.
I would use the effects up front because. no doubt, that's how you've been working on the song up to this point, correct? I like to capture the performance of a song. That's a big part of it. Making corrections is forgivable just don't let anyone know or notice.

[pgolliher]

Originally Posted by M0ses

That's a good thing! Do you want to spend two hours getting the drums miced just right? Do you want to play the same solo twenty times trying to get it right? No, I want to set up my DI in thirty seconds, play one or two takes, do it right the first time, and move on to mastering. Why can't the rest of the band be as efficient as I am?

I like being effcient, I just don't like having to sit through long recording sessions of guitar players and singers- guitar player trying to work out a decent solo while burning our time and money.

[tangentmusic]

I call how I do it "an analog approach to digital recording".
I like to record tracks as a performance, or all the way through.
If I make a mistake early on, I'll start over.
If I make a mistake in the middle or near the end, I'll punch in.
No cut 'n paste or loops for me.

[Corey Y]

I'm the same way as you tangentmusic. I've been recording in the digitial medium for a long time, but I still treat it like a tape deck. I always try to steer performers toward doing a few takes all the way through, comping the best bits and then going back and punching in if there's a line here or there they don't like. That kind of approach generally keeps you in the flow of things, then you can always have that digital magic in a pinch if you really need it. The last project I recorded was all synced perfectly to a click track and we still didn't do any cut and paste arranging. I have done it before though, in cases of minor catastrophe.

[pmaraziti]

Thanks for the many inputs so far! don't hesitate to keep them coming.

Let me also add a specific question: I understand there's a way in Logic to record the straight bass track and then play it back and sending to an output connected to, for instance my pedalboard, and then record the "effected" bass back still via Logic, say onto an other track. Is my udnerstand correct? Would it cause big latency?

[sonic assassin]

it really depends on the music and what you can get away with. ive played 4 to 8 bars or once through a section and looped it, ive played entire tracks all the way through without a single punch in. if you're good enough at precision editing, no one will know you didnt get it in one take.

i often take complicated songs in sections. i want to make sure that i give each part its own intention. its not cheating. mixing recorded music is about sonic perfection. mixing live music is an exercise in crisis management. people want a cd to hear it clean. people want to see it live to get smacked in the face with it. mistakes fly live. records are forever.

as far as effects, it depends on what you're doing. can some or all of the effects be recreated better with plugins? often times delays and choruses can. especially true with most compression and ill go as far as to say all gating. vintage gear with a lot of color to it, thats when the arguments start. when possible, track a clean channel (often a DI if you like the sound of it) and an effected channel. its hard for me to see because all i ever do to bass is distort and chorus, and ill get my chorus from logic.

if you want to take a signal, record it, then re amp it through a clean and then effected amp, that will take a lot more work and some more equipment. it IS entirely possible.

as far as latency is concerned, through the magic of digital editing, any audible latency or phase issues can be fixed by just moving the tracks.

[Corey Y]

The latency depends somewhat on your buffer settings, which can be adjusted in Preferences I think, and somewhat on your hardware interface. That might have it's own settings as well. I haven't had any issues with latency while reamping with my setup, which is Logic 9 (with the buffer set to the minimum for tracking) running on a 2010 iMac with a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 interface (set to the "low latency" mode for tracking).

If you want to reamp a DI track you just apply the I/O plug-in (under the "Utilities" plug-ins) and assign to the desired hardware output (and make the corresponding selection on your interface software if necessary), then connect the selected hardware output to a reamp box or the balanced input on your amp if you have one, mic up the rig and record it to a new track. You can adjust the output level of the signal from the plug-in and you can mute the original without affecting the I/O and adjust your settings in real time while listening to the mix to dial things in.

[JimmyM]

i almost always do a full take all the way through and just fix mistakes by punching. in the long run, all that matters is that you get a good track and it doesn't matter how you do it, but too many times it's done thinking it'll save time and effort, and honestly, cutting and pasting can be as tricky as just cutting a track all the way down. plus cutting and pasting doesn't allow for any variation whatsoever, and i like that variation.

[Electricblue]

Might be very simple but sometimes we slip up on the basics. SAVE YOUR STUFF! TWICE!

I was recording something and there was a powercut. I now use a UPS.

Make sure your stuff isnt clipping when you record.

Turn useless stuff off like flourescent bulbs, fans etc.

[pmaraziti]

Originally Posted by Corey Y

The latency depends somewhat on your buffer settings, which can be adjusted in Preferences I think, and somewhat on your hardware interface. That might have it's own settings as well. I haven't had any issues with latency while reamping with my setup, which is Logic 9 (with the buffer set to the minimum for tracking) running on a 2010 iMac with a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 interface (set to the "low latency" mode for tracking).

If you want to reamp a DI track you just apply the I/O plug-in (under the "Utilities" plug-ins) and assign to the desired hardware output (and make the corresponding selection on your interface software if necessary), then connect the selected hardware output to a reamp box or the balanced input on your amp if you have one, mic up the rig and record it to a new track. You can adjust the output level of the signal from the plug-in and you can mute the original without affecting the I/O and adjust your settings in real time while listening to the mix to dial things in.

Great, thanks!

[Samsound]

Latency isn't an issue when reamping - especially if it's all direct through pedals. If your re-amped track ends up lagged, you can just nudge the clip into place.

[Nephilymbass]

main thing is record the bass EQ as flat as you can get everything, you can always take out frequencies later but you can't put them in when they are not there.

Another thing that I've found helps a lot with bass is panning the guitars but not the bass. A lot of guys say all this stuff about mids and EQ to be heard in the mix and yeah to some degree that's true but give the bass its own space and when it comes to mixing levels you won't be fighting with guitar players over the bass being to loud or not loud enough,

[Samsound]

I almost always use a Haas panning technique on guitars and keys, even if I'm not going very wide. That little bit of 3 dimensionality leaves a lot of room for bass, kicks, snares, LVox, etc.

[Dave Klausner]

I like to to track at least the rhythm section together - there is generally an energy that's hard to get otherwise. My preference is to also run a scratch guitar track and vocal at the same time, so everyone feels like they're playing together. If we're working with a click, I may only have the vocalist do a single take so as not to wear them out. Obviously, everyone is wearing headphones. I isolate the amps, and mic them but also run a DI.

What I'm really looking for at this point, is great, clean, drum tracks, but you often get keeper tracks of other instruments. If we have to run the song more than 5 or 6 times, and I don't feel I have enough good drums, the band just isn't ready to be recording. I'm looking for one take with killer feel, that can be augmented in sections with other takes if needed. I was raised on analog tape, and I'm not going to go too crazy cutting and pasting single hits unless it's a rare fix in an otherwise killer take.

Once the drums are in the can, we look at the bass. Often, I'll have everything I need at that point, but if some overdubs are required, that's fine. Sometimes, the bass player wants to redo everything, which is also fine, since the amp was isolated, and wasn't bleeding into the drums. I heard Jim Dickinson tell a story about recording Sly and Robbie for the first time. They played the track together, and he was shocked how busy Robbie's playing was, but the energy was great. After the take, Robbie came into the control room and immediately retracked the bass, this time playing about half the notes. He said he always did it that way - that he found there was a lot more energy with that method.

I prefer to track all instruments as dry as possible - you can always add effects later, and tweak parameters, but you can't undo them if that's how you recorded. Especially when it comes to time based effects, I'm likely to have cooler stuff at my disposal than you do, and we can always use your stuff later if that's what's right for the track. If a player needs to hear effects to play the parts properly, we'll run them, and I'll mic the amp, but I'll also record a dry DI so I have something to work with later. You can absolutely use pedals on mixdown, and typically don't need to do any impedance matching like you do if you actually reamp. I use the Radial XAmp box if I need to reamp, but there are a number of choices available.