Recording trombone and trumpet, any clue?

[crow01]

Someone asked me to record a song that has a trombone and a trumpet.

How do I track these? What type of mic and placement is mostly used for these?

Any guidelines or anybody that did this before?

Thanks

[sonic assassin]

what style? there are different approaches based on what you're going for.

if its pop or ska, and you need a really bright trumpet, try a 57 or similar mic. right up in the bell if you have to. ive never done a trombone, but i think its a similar setup. a buddy of mine did some ska tracks and used a rode nt1-a, which is a reaaaallly bright mic. kind of annoying even, but the horns fit well.

if you need something more authentic, perhaps a large diaphragm condenser a couple feet out (assuming the room sounds good enough). if you want less room, get closer. trumpets can reach as high as 120 spl, so make sure you have a mic that can take high spl's.

if you're going for something mellow like jazz, then a ribbon mic is the way to go. very dark mics with really bright horns will make it just chilled out enough. just be warned, RIBBON MICS ARE EXTREMELY SENSITIVE. a sharp blow from a trumpet could destroy it. if you're going to use a ribbon, make sure its pretty far out.

you can always try 2 of these at once and mix to taste. something bright and fizzy right in the bell, and an LDC or ribbon out a bit in the room.

when i saw streetlight manifesto a few months ago, the setup was
trumpet - 57 or i5 with foam screen
trombone - md421
sax - md421
bari sax - re20

all of which handle ridiculously high spl. but thats ska music..

[Inflin]

Unless I was working with super experienced session players I would stick to dynamic mics, the SM57 being a sure fire bet. You never know when a newbie to the studio is going to blow your condenser diaphragm with his 150dB flugelhorn when your back is turned...

[dmilt23451]

My personal go to on this situation would be something like an akg 414

[Zombbg4]

An sm57 will work fine for trumpet, but trombone you may want to use a condenser. I also wouldn't say stick the mic up the players bell, but just below the "hole" of the bell, like even with the bell flare, once again especially for trombone.

[DocBop]

Acoustic instruments are generally the same. Bright punchy sound like R&B or Rock then close mic. If experienced horn players they usually are good about judging distance. I like ribbon mic's for brass. If doing Jazz or more acoustic sound then probably want to back off the mic's and more of the blend and some ambience.

If you recording an instrument for the first time and working with experienced musicians don't be afraid to ask them what they like. They are like all musicians and have mic preferences and can show you where they like mic placed.

[crow01]

thanks.

i think i will try the 57. i think the trumpet has some experience, but I am afraid the trombonist is going to just knock off the mic. Maybe I need to place that mic way out of reach.

Or don't they have mics that you can clip to the bell of the horn, I have seen them in some jazz concerts, but I don't have any clue as to which are they.

[lambro]

vintage 421
royer 121 ribbon
beyer 201 ribbon

all will work very well

if your room is big you could put up an ambient LDC for fun, like a tube 47


experimentation is key, matching up to the console pre etc

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by crow01

thanks.

i think i will try the 57. i think the trumpet has some experience, but I am afraid the trombonist is going to just knock off the mic. Maybe I need to place that mic way out of reach.

Or don't they have mics that you can clip to the bell of the horn, I have seen them in some jazz concerts, but I don't have any clue as to which are they.

Those clip-on's are okay for live, but I wouldn't record with them they don't have a full range to me.

[projectMalamute]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Those clip-on's are okay for live, but I wouldn't record with them they don't have a full range to me.

I'd say the exact same thing about an SM57

[deaf pea]

I usually use a ribbon (Coles 4038) for trumpet and a large diaphram dynamic (EV RE20/PL20 or Sennheiser MD421) for trombone . . .

FWIW, a condenser mic NEVER sounds good with trumpets/trombones . . . but a condenser mic CAN sound good with a saxophone, depending on the player of course (as always).

[BAW]

ive used re-20's for both, ive also used 57's. the 57's arent the best but if you know you can clean it up in editing and you cant find a better choice mic than it wont be too bad. of course that was very loud ska horns. if its jazz thang def go try out some LDM condensers or ribbon mics.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by crow01

thanks.

i think i will try the 57. i think the trumpet has some experience, but I am afraid the trombonist is going to just knock off the mic. Maybe I need to place that mic way out of reach.

You do realize that the bell is on the other side of the slide and doesn't move, right? Knocking the mic won't be a problem

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by deaf pea

FWIW, a condenser mic NEVER sounds good with trumpets/trombones

gonna have to call BS on that. like i said, one of my friends used an NT-1A on both and they sounded fine. not ideal, but it worked.

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

...one of my friends used an NT-1A on both and they sounded fine. not ideal, but it worked.

"not ideal" says it all . . . of course "it worked", it just didn't sound very good . . . which WAS my original point . . .

Just about ANY mic will "work" for recording, but every instrument sounds "better" with a particular mic/mic placement . . . IME (>40 years experience recording . . . at first as a musician, then as an engineer . . . check my profile . . . It's NOT BS!)

[lambro]

Originally Posted by deaf pea

originator, The Ampeg SVT-3PRO has (enough) Balls Club

this is awesome.....and true

[sonic assassin]

Originally Posted by deaf pea

"not ideal" says it all . . . of course "it worked", it just didn't sound very good . . . which WAS my original point

ok, ill rephrase, it worked AND sounded fine in the context of the mix.

using broad sweeping statements like "LCD's dont sound good on trumpets and trombones" is a little ridiculous.

i would have used a 57 and my ribbon in the room, but thats me.

[Joebone]

Ribbons sound best for both trumpet and bone, but only with experienced players. For trombone in particular, proximity to the mike can make a huge difference - many studio players use this to their advantage for that slippery, warm, ballad stuff by blowing softly, close to the mike. But too close or too much volume, you get a mess from any mike, and inept blowing, too close, can take a ribbon out.

Been too long since I've been in the studio, but for hi-end section work I generally recall seeing Ribbons, EV RE-20 and those big black Sennheisers that sort of look like squared-off submarines, that sometimes get used on kick drum. I suspect these mikes have been popular because of the dynamic impact horns can generate.

But rather than sweat the mic selection, cuz I have no idea of your budget and equipment, here's a helpful hint that will give you a lot of flexibility, no matter what you use. Mike each player separately, but then also use a third mike to get them both from some distance away, into a separate channel (I recommend one channel for each player and a third for this "section" sound). This mike will give you a section sound, which you can blend with their individual sounds as you wish. I've seen this work well in studios ranging from small project spaces to top-drawer.

Enjoy!

[greenboy]

It's not like you can't find great brass recordings using better dynamics, ribbons and even condensors, if they are capable of high SPL or used at greater distance. So obviously there are proponents of any of the above.

[mkrtu9]

I was just thinking about this last night. My nephew plays the trumpet and thought I should try and record it for fun.

Thanks for reading my mind