removing bass with EQ

[50something]

I am transferring a bunch of 25 year old stereo tapes from the first band I was in to cd. In listening to the stuff I cringe at some of my bass work. I was not an experienced bass player and it shows, but the vocals and guitars on these original songs are worth keeping.

I got a Behringer 15 band dual eq and am trying to eq my bass part out of the full mix and re-record a new bass part. Anyone ever have any luck trying this?

I tried cutting everything below 250hz, but the vocals start sounding kind of thin. I might try just try rolling off the 160 hz a little and hope a new stronger bass line will cover up what is left. The drummer was as mediocre as I was then, so I don't mind losing the kick drum.

thanks

[bluestarbass]

I think youll never get it to just completely remove the bass. It will always pull something else out as your finding out. Ive heard of ways to do this using phase cancellation but ive never tried. There are products on the market that claim to remove the bass from tracks. If those are reasonable they probably arent amazing but will do a better job that subtractive eqing.

[stingray69]

A fully parametric EQ may do a better job surgically removing the bass while leaving the vocals more intact.

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by bluestarbass

I think youll never get it to just completely remove the bass. It will always pull something else out as your finding out. Ive heard of ways to do this using phase cancellation but ive never tried. There are products on the market that claim to remove the bass from tracks. If those are reasonable they probably arent amazing but will do a better job that subtractive eqing.

EQ can't remove an instrument without affecting the other instruments (usually to the worse).

Phase cancellation is very dependent on the mixing. Your source has to be stereo, because essentially what it does is flip the phase of one channel, so everything mixed in the center (sent equally to both channels) gets cancelled out. After flipping the phase of one channel, the audio is then converted to a mono signal to realize this cancellation.

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by geoffkhan

Phase cancellation is very dependent on the mixing. Your source has to be stereo, because essentially what it does is flip the phase of one channel, so everything mixed in the center (sent equally to both channels) gets cancelled out.

Which, given the vintage of your tapes, probably means bass, kick drum, and lead vox. Given that you want to keep the vocals, this probably isn't the path you want to take.

It's easy enough to check if you have audio editing software, but since you're asking here, I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience with audio editing or remixing.

Assuming there isn't a commercial demand for these long-lost cuts, my advice would be to repeat the phrase "It is what it is" until you can just accept the tapes for what they are.

OTOH, if it's really important to you, I'd suggest taking the tapes to a good local project or pro studio to have a more experienced hand take a crack at a track or two. If you like the results, spring for the whole project.

[geoffkhan]

Once you can get past the impression of permanence recordings you are involved with seem to have, you'll have a lot more freedom as an improvising musician.

Try making a recording with a band, using only first takes, but putting all of your energy and emotion into it. At that point you realize the importance of the soul behind the music over the technical perfection of the performance.

Your playing on a recording and your playing live should not be compared. For example, just because a musician can perfectly record a part after 50 takes does not mean he can pull it off on the stage. Just because a singer is in tune after the autotuner has been adjusted and applied, does not mean he/she can sing in tune on the stage.

In essence, the recordings create expectations for the musicians, not only from their listener's perspective, but from their own. Having to compete with the studio version of yourself is pretty futile.

I guess the point is, when you're listening back to these tapes, realize that that was your playing back then. Rather than cringing and wanting to re-record the bass parts, use it as an opportunity to acknowlege that you've progressed a lot.

[BassJunkie730]

Honestly - try to redo the recording entirely - Start a new band - learn the songs again.


I love recording - to me it's like taking a picture. And the sooner you can release yourself emotionally from a "bad" recording the better. You'll find that many more productive choices can stem from realizing your chops are better now than wanting to try your hand at revisionist recording history.


A big +1 to Geoff's comments.

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by BassJunkie730

I love recording - to me it's like taking a picture. And the sooner you can release yourself emotionally from a "bad" recording the better. You'll find that many more productive choices can stem from realizing your chops are better now than wanting to try your hand at revisionist recording history.

Definitely!!

I know this is a little tangent, but hopefully you all will find it of interest.

What did it for me was I noticed in a certain sax player I was recording with--everything he played sounded good. All his solos were perfect, etc. He had this flow going; his musical ideas were endless. Then I thought, wouldn't it be cool to be like him and be happy with every take.

Then I started doing engineering work, recording a few bands, having no part in the actual music making. I found suddenly I was able to listen to the ensemble as a whole, as opposed to always being concerned about what I played. It was then also that I truly realized how important the energy and emotion behind the playing is so much more important than technical perfection.

To get an idea of this, listen to Isaac Stern play violin. He plays with so much soul, the technical perfection shrivels in comparison to the pure emotion and spirit of his playing.

Anyway, I think those experiences really helped me with the recording issues we all face. I mean, if you think about it, sometimes a microphone is a pretty big audience in a sense. In fact, it's a little scary because we can't even directly see this audience. We could be playing for hundreds, or even thousands of people. Recording is a lot of pressure!

Nowadays, when I record in groups, I take the attitude where I try to put as much feeling into everything I play. That way, as long as everything is played whole-heartedly, there are no bad takes. Recording (and listening back to your recordings) feels so much better, too!

Anyway, I don't mean to make this seem like I'm superior to other players, because I've had this "realization", but rather serve to encourage everyone. You are the only one who can play your instrument like you can, and in this sense you are a valuable addition to music.