Renting and Recording

[JeffC]

My band wans to do some recording of the originals we have been working on. The rest of the band are not very tech savy but lucky for them you TBers have taught me much.

What I think is best is to go out and rent a Firebox or something like that and just go through my PC but to what is the question...

I have Acid 4 and happend to get Tracktion 2 with the Stealth Plug I just bought.

Will these applications suffice or should I be looking at another app? I find the effects odd in Tracktion, it's hard to get a good distortion for the guitar, there is an overdrive effect but it sounds like garbage.

Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

[bkbirge]

Unless you have enough gear and a good room where you can record everyone together in a band situation then you may actually save money by going to a local pro studio for demos. You can get them to record you in the digital format of your choice and then spend months tweaking from your computer if you want. Nothing beats being able to record everyone together IMO.

[JeffC]

What does studio time usually run for, lets say 3 tracks? I have some digital audio training from college but I really think we would need an engineer as well.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by JeffC

What does studio time usually run for, lets say 3 tracks? I have some digital audio training from college but I really think we would need an engineer as well.

Around the San Francisco Bay Area, studio time runs at about the same price as the hourly rate at the practice spaces...something like $20 an hour.

However, I've found that these clowns aren't qualified to record rock bands. Mostly, these are just cats that do "Rap and Spoken Word" and are just trying to recoup the cost of their fancy macbooks.

I'll play the devil's advocate and say that I would prefer to do a home-brew recording.

[bkbirge]

Originally Posted by JeffC

What does studio time usually run for, lets say 3 tracks? I have some digital audio training from college but I really think we would need an engineer as well.

Depends where you are but in most secondary markets (not Nashville, LA, NY) you can find a good pro studio including engineer for around $45/hour. When I owned a pro studio we had a package that gave you 10 hours with a rough mix, usually plenty for demo quality 3 rock songs with full band and overdubs. Most will have similar deals, usually at a slight discount to the hourly rate. Get out the yellow pages, go down the list and ask:

1) do you have package pricing?
2) engineer included?
3) can they record a full band all at once, with properly isolated rooms?
4) client list with links and/or a demo CD they can let you hear?
5) will they do a free estimate and let you come down for a tour?

Most pro studios will have a yes to all of these.

Ask other bands in your area that have released CD's where they went and you'll get some good answers there too.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by bkbirge

3) can they record a full band all at once, with properly isolated rooms?

I saw a "studio" that put your amp behind a tunnel of cardboard boxes.

Most likely for the "Wall of Sound" effect *end sarcasm*

[JeffC]

I think a studio session is really overkill at this point. Mostly I think I need something that will be ok for playback, just to give us a sense of the songs.

Like I mentioned before, I do have some digital audio, mixing and editing training but it has been a couple years since I used it so I am a little out of the loop with the most up to date software. The practice would be a nice added bonus as well.

What I think I want to do to lay down the couple tracks is record the guitar and bass tracks together, rent a electronic drum kit and record it and the vocal track separately.

Any potential problems with this?

[bkbirge]

I don't recommend overdubbing drums to guitar tracks, you are just asking for trouble with timing and feel, even if you are originally playing to a metronome. And the funny thing is, if the drums are off, it will sound like the rest of the band is off, not necessarily the drums. I think for what you want, I might approach it by having everyone play together but only recording the drums (assuming I'm limited in amount of gear) and then overdub everything else to them. That way you get drum tracks that are closer to the full band feel and you have a good reference to play to for overdubs.

[bkbirge]

Originally Posted by meev992

I saw a "studio" that put your amp behind a tunnel of cardboard boxes.

Most likely for the "Wall of Sound" effect *end sarcasm*

That can be for picking up the low end better. I've done that with kick drums, built a tunnel to extend the drum a bit and then put the mic in. It's a well known trick. It should work for amps no prob, though it wouldn't do anything for isolation from other instruments in the room.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by JeffC

Any potential problems with this?

Keep the drummer away from the beer.

[Valerus]

Originally Posted by meev992

However, I've found that these clowns aren't qualified to record rock bands. Mostly, these are just cats that do "Rap and Spoken Word" and are just trying to recoup the cost of their fancy macbooks.

Hah, haven't heard that before.

[bluestarbass]

First, you cant rent a firebox. Gear rental places, especially for recording, only rent high end gear, and rarely converters. If you needed to rent like a neve 1073 or a neumann u47 u could, not a firebox. Not trying to be mean, ive just rented alot of recording gear and ive never seen anything under 3 grand for rental typically.

If all your using this for is playback id just throw caution to the wind and track everyone live with one mic. You could go as far as tracking all instruments seperately, but your still going to be tracking the drums in mono with a mono source. The firebox is not much of a noticeable step up from a stealth plug.

Your typically going to pay $500 a song for a demo. 3 songs = $1500. Thats with everything, tracking mixing and mastering usually. Thats just demo quality though. If I were doing a full length Id budget probably 5 grand per song. If I added up the last few songs Ive done thats about what it costs if I include my mixing and tracking time. Most of it was done by the band, but they are all working engineers, so it was tracked professionally. Cost us much less, but if you were signed to a label thats about what theyd budget minimum.

If I were you id try and find a local college with a recording program. We did this alot when I was in college studying recording. Usually theres some decent engineers that will track at the college for cheap. College's with recording programs usually have pretty solid gear. We had all top notch outboard, pro tools HD in all rooms, 48 channel consoles. Since its only for playback you could probably get 3 songs in one day for $100.

[JeffC]

Very interesting Bluestar, I hadn't thought about hitting up college programs, it's a good idea!

I understang your not trying to be mean or anything and that there is a reason that recording time and equipment is expensive. It is true with many things that you get what you pay for.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I have soe things to sit and think about now.

[bkbirge]

Originally Posted by bluestarbass

Your typically going to pay $500 a song for a demo. 3 songs = $1500. Thats with everything, tracking mixing and mastering usually.

That seems really high for Indianapolis demos and I don't know why anyone would want to master a demo, that's just throwing money away. It's been years since I've been there but If I'm doing a quickie demo in Indy I probably would go more with a Hit City (inexpensive punk rock & roll local band oriented) type of place instead of TRC (pricier, do a lot of corporate gigs, regional bands, etc) if they are still around, for an example. You have to know what studio is appropriate to your goals, hence I suggest asking bands in your area that you like about their experiences. I'd say you should be able to get a studio for $500/day and if you know your songs well as a band you can typically get 3 songs done to demo quality in a day. That's just my experience though and really depends on the area.

+1 on the college idea though, a lot of them will record you for free if it is part of a class.

[bluestarbass]

understang your not trying to be mean or anything and that there is a reason that recording time and equipment is expensive. It is true with many things that you get what you pay for

Im kinda a perfectionist when it comes to recording. You can do it much cheaper, i guess this is worst case scenario. I know when I priced doing a 3 song demo at sonic iguana thats how much it cost. You do get what you pay for generally but there are deals to be had, like a college program. Its kinda like a tatoo guy. There could be guys who have been doing it 20 years and suck. There could also be a new guy who is great but is cheap cuz hes new. Point is youd look at their work first. Anyone whos decent is gonna have a demo real. Ask to hear other albums they have worked on.

Recording is expensive for 2 reasons.

1. The recording industry isnt what is used to be. Much more bands are doing it at home, so they have to charge more cuz they are vacant more.

2. Its super expensive to start a studio. Recording equipment is very expensive. The stuff has gotten better and cheaper, but this is mostly pro-sumer stuff. If you went into a commerical studio they are gonna have 4 grand compressors and a $80 grand board.

I probably would go more with a Hit City (inexpensive punk rock & roll local band oriented) type of place instead of TRC (pricier, do a lot of corporate gigs, regional bands, etc)

Ive never heard of either of these places so they must not be around. I havent shopped studio rates in indy lately. I have my own studio so I track it here or go to chicago to my friends studio. Your right, it could be alot less, but lately thats about what ive heard places doing deals for. When we were doing my last bands album we shopped sonic iguana like I said before. This is a pretty famous place with so so gear. They wanted $1500 for a 3 song demo.

Breakdown for that cost, say you were really well rehersed and could do all songs in a 8 hours day.

Tracking: 8 hours x 45 an hours = 360
Mixing: 4 hours x 45 = 180
Mastering for a demo: probably $100 a song

So your looking at realistically $840. Thats if you were a well rehearsed band who could nail it pretty quick. Studio time burns quick.

Lastly, you have to look at your ultimate medium. Is this going to be played on hi fi systems or myspace. It sounds like for your own purposes and maybe your myspace page. Myspace will make the best recordings sound bad. Id stick to trying and doing it yourself for this purpose. If you have any questions there are plenty of online resources to help. Id also be happy to walk you through anything if you want to call or email me. If youd like my phone number PM me.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by bluestarbass

Myspace will make the best recordings sound bad.

+10

Youtube also has a bad habit of making video and audio out of sync.

I'm surprised by the prices for recording that others have listed, everything in my area is much cheaper.

[JeffC]

I don't even have a Myspace, so no worries there.

I am interested as having it as something I can listen to as a 3rd party, it doesn't have to be a hi fi gem but it has to be tolerable.

UPDATE: A good friend of mine offered me his services today. He is a 15 year veteran videographer, at a major Toronto tv station and a solid freelancer. He has a bunch of new production equipment he is wanting to try out and this a fun little project.

What is going to happen is he will set up lighting and what not in our jam space and do some creative shooting for fun but then also use his couple wireless mic systems to record the sound. One mic will be dedicated to the instruments at the mixer the other for the vocals. Then him and I will mix and edit the whole thing, audio and video.

It's maybe not as good as a proper recording but it should be up to par with a live performance (clip) you see on the news.

I can't wait....I wish our jam space wasn't so ugly now :/

[Rakie]

Really depends. It could be a few hundred a day, a Thousand a day, or a few thousand a day.