S.O.S. for low budget home recording

[Charling]

Cool no probs! Well thats a start, 30ms or so is too high to comfortably record but at least its making a difference! Yeah try going a bit lower, and try reducing the buffers as well, its worth a try, if all else fails just put it back to 8!

The track slowing down may have been a symptom of the computer not keeping up, as long as it sounds normal at a slightly higher buffer size you should be onto a winner!

This is where a dedicated interface will definitely perform better, as the speakers plug into the interface as well as the bass you only need to run 1 driver so less buffers for the audio to have to go through! That said, you should be able to get to workable levels with the usb cable no probs, otherwise they would be a bit useless

[SuperAfroBeat]

Hi, thanks again. I lowered the buffers from 8 to 6 and 7, it got too slow, so I put it back to 8, but doesn't go back to normal speed for the track with the song. I also realize that the apply button from the preferences is in gray and inactive, it's not taking the changes anymore. Is there a way to reset to factory settings in Reaper? then with what you taught me I can go back to how it was before that it got slow and I can keep trying. thanks, Sue

[SuperAfroBeat]

it changed back. so i'm starting to lower the buffer again

[SuperAfroBeat]

Hi, please let me know if this makes any sense to you. I am recording 31ms latency, that's the lowest I could bring it before sound breaks or song slows down. I record trying to focus on the sound bass input instead of on the beat of the song so I can punch accordingly, all too weird for someone who is not even sure about the normal beats. The thing I find the most weird is that when I play if back sound of the bass is jumping back and forth and mostly forward as if I'm playing before the beat. Is there any other magic trick? settings for managing after recording?
And if I buy and interface, from what you wrote before, I don't get it so well because I'm not technical enough, would I need to make sure the cable and computer work good before I even think about getting an interface? I'm disappointed and feeling stupid that I invested on the cable, I thought my PC was ok, because I keep all documents on an external memory, it should be fine. Is there something I can check regarding my pc to see exactly why it doesn't work? is it about the free memory? I don't know much about this. thanks in advance.

[smeet]

I hate latency, so here is what I would do. Don't monitor through the computer. Instead, use one of these methods to monitor through your bass amp:
1) plug bass into amp, take the DI or send out from the amp into the computer.
2) use a Y cable to split your signal and send to both amp and computer.

Then you have zero latency and you can turn up the buffer so your computer doesn't have to work so hard. This should also get rid of the playing ahead of the beat sound.

[SuperAfroBeat]

Hi, thanks this other possible solution. The thing is that I would need to ask for help to do it, I'll try, although it can take a long time till someone I know helps me with that.

That's why I bought the USB Guitar cable because I thought would be something I can do.

What would be another way? to upgrade my pc?
Which requirements to be able to work out the latency with Reaper?
I have what it says on the package of the cable.

And what is the other program for? the one that came with the cable? "Guitar Rig", and "ASIO4ALL". Can neither of these help diminish the latency or the strange playback? did I waste my money?

[ThudThudThud]

I would urge you to take a look at homerecordingconnection.com.
dB-Masters and the guys and girls over there will see you right. They are all nice (thanks to good mods), polite, and have incredible knowledge of all aspects of home recording. Think of it as the TB of the Home recording world.

Nothing but love for all the TBers above, but there's a lot of experience over there at HRC - from two-track tape recorders to full commercial studios. There's a chance that someone over there can make life very easy (and cheap) for you.

Refer to the webmaster (dB-Masters) as "dB-Wan," and he'll know I sent you!

[Charling]

Originally Posted by SuperAfroBeat

That's why I bought the USB Guitar cable because I thought would be something I can do.

Don't worry, installing an interface would not be as complicated as this has turned out to be. The interface takes over the sound duties of the computer completely, so one driver, less latency as standard and all the controls on the front panel. The USB cable should be enough to get you working hopefully, but if not don't worry, an interface will not require all this fiddling with multiple drivers etc, and adjusting the buffer size is a standard process for setting up a little recording rig so now you are used to it you'll know what to adjust in future!

Originally Posted by SuperAfroBeat

What would be another way? to upgrade my pc?
Which requirements to be able to work out the latency with Reaper?
I have what it says on the package of the cable.

Upgrading your PC MAY help, it will alow you to get the buffer size lower BUT I've had very acceptable latency on an entry level soundcard with a PC made in 2001 so it IS very doable. It would help if you let us know the specs of your PC, or at least what year you bought it, then we can see how old it actually is! 1998, gonna be a struggle, 2005, should be ok etc!

Originally Posted by SuperAfroBeat

And what is the other program for? the one that came with the cable? "Guitar Rig", and "ASIO4ALL". Can neither of these help diminish the latency or the strange playback? did I waste my money?

Guitar rig is an amp modelling program, an effects pedal for the computer, it won't change latency. You need to use Reaper to record to backing tracks, guitar rig on its own is just used to simulate playing your bass through an amp on computer speakers. Guitar rig will run as an effect in Reaper so once you have it working nicely you can use guitar rig within Reaper to change the sound of your bass. It's useful to have, but not worth worrying about till you have got it running well without!

ASIO for ALL is still worth looking at. The trouble you have is that using 2 soundcards at once (which is sort of the same as using 2 drivers at once, a driver is just a little bit of software that talks to a specific bit of hardware and allows the computer to 'use' it). The buffer is just the thinking time you allow the driver to have. A low buffer = no thinking time = need a stronger PC to get the audio through clearly. High buffer = lots of thinking time = no stress on CPU BUT latency is gonna happen.

ALL systems are a compromise between computer power and the amount of thinking time you can give it to get to a low latency. The trouble with using 2 soundcards (ie both the gtr usb cable and the computer onboard soundcard) is that it is going through the 'buffer' stage TWICE. both soundcards require a thinking time so you are effectively doubling the latency for your system. If the system was already a little weak it might be hard to get it low enough for it to work quickly when having to do twice as much work as a normal setup.

OK, thats where asio4all comes in, its a driver as well, but a 3rd party driver that specialises in helping out weaker systems by treating all the soundcards as one, hence lower latency (for those in the know, this is not quite true, but for simplicity ). So in your case asio4all may help, but as you mentioned earlier that it wasn't working when you selected it I assumed it was not going to work with your particular setup. Might be worth a bit more fiddling though.

What was the make of USB cable you bought? That will allow us to look for support specific to the cable, most have website which discuss these things and they all want people to enjoy using their stuff!

Don't worry, this is annoying but a normal stage for people getting into computer recording! I had to work all this stuff out on my own years ago, took me months but i got there! The only thing that should stop you getting a useable setup is if your computer is REALLY old, and just can't deal with the task. In which case buying an interface may be the only way to go. But post your specs. If your computer is really that old you may find just upgrading that solves everything and makes the whole recording process easier anyway.

LASTLY Smeet's suggestion will get you to a workable setup on your system straight away, and its not that hard to do. All you need is some way to split your bass signal so =

Plug bass into splitter > plug one splitter output into USB gtr cable, plug one splitter output into amp. That will allow you to play completely latency free while recording it as well. A passive guitar splitter is cheap and simple, just 1 jack 'in' and 2 jacks 'out'. You play latency free and then playback from the computer and can hear your bass recorded along to the track!

[SuperAfroBeat]

Hi, thank you again. I just read your advice, thank you for sharing this info to see if it can be solved. Now I understand more.
I will try with the split if my pc is too old. Here some details:
My PC I bought it last year second hand. I think it's old, but how can I find out? (you can imagine now how much I know about these things).
I see I have Win XP Home edition version 202 service pack 3, and it's a Pentium(R) 4 , Dell, CPU 2.40GHz
2.39 GHz
2.00 GB of RAM
Does it say enough to know if it should be working?
If not good then I will buy the cable with split. I couldn't not possibly afford an interface, not even in the near future, that's why I need to keep trying the cheapest way possible.
And thanks to all who tried to help.
Thanks, Sue

[SuperAfroBeat]

Hi,
Do you think it 'should' be working if my PC is/has:
Win XP Home edition version 2002 service pack 3, and it's a Pentium(R) 4 , Dell, CPU 2.40GHz
2.39 GHz
2.00 GB of RAM
thanks, Sue

[mcnach]

My PC until not long ago had similar specs, and yes, I could record fine.

Don't give up. You will get there. :-)

[SuperAfroBeat]

with no interface? just with the cable? are you talking serious?

is there a trick to make it? when I turn the buffer down it just doesn't record on the beat, seems to pick it up later than the beat, and on the play back it sounds before the beat. How did you fix it?

[SuperAfroBeat]

but mine is not working, i can't fix the latency, when i think it's getting better then the pay back is way before the beat

[SuperAfroBeat]

Charling, you asked me for the specifications of my PC. Do they sound to you good enough for the cable to work and for any hope to solve the latency?

[smeet]

Get the splitter, don't monitor your bass through the computer. I have a very fast computer, and I still monitor directly through a splitter. This will work with your setup and it will be pretty cheap. Go to a music store, and tell them you want to split your signal so you can send it to your amp and to your computer. You shouldn't have to spend more than $50, probably a lot less.

Or, if your amp has a direct out, then it's even easier. Instead of plugging directly into the computer, plug bass into amp. Then plug the direct out into the computer. The master volume on your amp will control the amp volume, the gain or input volume will control the volume to the computer.

Either of these methods is 100% guaranteed to give you zero latency through the slowest computer in the world.

[SuperAfroBeat]

I did, I went to a music store and they had no clue about it. I will try another store.

I have two questions:

In the case if I want to try to plug only to amp, and from the amp to the PC... my amp has one exit for headphones. is that enough in order to plug from headphones out into the computer?

And in the case of using the splitter, I'm trying to understand what to ask for in the shop. (I looked in wikipedia for the names of the plugs) a female jack, split into two male connectors (one USB that will go to the PC, and the other one a male connector, that will go to the amp). and on the other extreme one female, which I'll connect to the normal bass cable which has two male connectors on each extreme.

and in both cases does the connection to the PC have to be via USB port?

Please don't give up on me, I have some hope once more, I had lost it in the past days. Thank you.

ps: maybe I'll win the forum's price to "the most clueless posts"!!

[Charling]

Yup, your computer, as long as it is not bogged down in loads of stuff, will be fine. I have recorded proffessional sessions on a similar spec machine in the last year or so. Not by choice, and power is useful for plugins etc but for basic recording your computer is FINE as long as it is well kept. I could get a latency of about 6ms on mine, albeit with a (inexpensive) interface.

The playback being off is a sign that record delay compensation is not on. This is a feature of DAW's that detects what the latency is in the system and adjusts all recordings to suit. ie it says 'I'm playing back the track THIS much late, and the audio being played is THIS much late so I need to do THIS to make it work'. Latency should only be an annoyance when hearing back what you play as you play it, the software should take care of the bigger issue of latency.

go to Preferences>audio>recording and make sure auto adjust for record latency is checked down the bottom. Hopefully that is off and you can get a quick fix.

If not then it may be a multi soundcard issue. I'd contact the company that makes the specific cable you bought and ask for help setting up with the asio driver if thats the case!

As for using a splitter, that won't help if adjust for record latency is not working as it should, it will still missplace the tracks, but it will help to get super quick 'monitoring' latency, ie you won't be put off by hearing the bass out of time when you play it.

The splitter is an easy concept! Any kind will work, all you are doing is sending your cable to an amp as normal so you can hear it playing back as you normally would thorugh the amp. The splitter simply gives you an extra socket to output from your bass, you send this to the computer via the usb cable to record what you are doing!

The connection to the pc, if using your cable should be via the usb port yes. If all this can't be solved even with the cable companies tech support then you can try getting a big to small jack adapter, scrapping the usb cable and going directly into the back of the computer. This may be a step backwards but if you can't get it working then a new avenue to try!

[music fun]

Can we hear ourselves here? This is the most absurd thing I've ever seen. One has to master this level of technical detail to record a bass into a computer? This seems completely impossible.

Im sitting here in my third hour waiting for the PreSonus AudioBox USB and its DAW Studio One 2 to finish its endless downloading and start up. I suppose before I die that may happen. And then I have THIS mess to look forward to? Ridiculous.

[Charling]

Originally Posted by music fun

Can we hear ourselves here? This is the most absurd thing I've ever seen. One has to master this level of technical detail to record a bass into a computer? This seems completely impossible.

Im sitting here in my third hour waiting for the PreSonus AudioBox USB and its DAW Studio One 2 to finish its endless downloading and start up. I suppose before I die that may happen. And then I have THIS mess to look forward to? Ridiculous.

Well, if you distill the conversation you'll see that essentially all we have said is to instal the driver, reduce the latency to as low as you can get and added a few tips on how to get it down further. The OP is very new this so understandably needs more clarification than most.

You are going to need to be able to do the above steps yes, but its not overly tricky, and if you, like you have, go for the more expensive interface option you have even less to worry about as they are a self contained input and output box that deals with all your computers audio needs!

Essentially, you are adding new hardware to a computer and that always requires a little bit of technical understanding but its really very easy. You just have to approach it with interest not fear (thats a killer for understanding) and be ready to learn a couple of new bits of terminology!

Also, as a general tip READ the boxes that pop up I know most people do but I was surprised the other day by my friend, who I was helping set up with a pro tools rig, clicked through boxes almost like an automatic reaction, I had to keep telling them to wait so I could read what the computer was trying to tell me hehe!

[music fun]

Charling, you're right of course. Having patience and letting go of fear are essential in this process. It does seem, however, that in trying to get started with it, after you've held your breath through the most recent crisis, the next, unrelated one pops out from behind the bush.

After three frustrating hours of loading, registering, activating, downloading plug-ins, updating, downloading, registering, activating, and downloading plug-ins (no typos here), I could not
1) get the hardware to show any signs of life beyond a power light, despite the manual's cheerful assertion that all I had to do was plug it into the USB,
2) import a song from my iTunes library into the DAW so that I could practice the bass line I want to learn (apparently this product does not permit that -- the ONLY reason I bought the thing)

I think by then it was more anger than fear driving me.

There is an unbroken chain of ignorance embedded in this concept of audio interfaces and DAWs: from the well-meaning but inexperienced salesman, to the online reviewers who have only tried one product, to the manuals written by engineers with insufficient empathy for the uninitiated, to the hapless user himself (me). At the very least there is an unmet opportunity for providers of this product to hire people who have tried and failed to use the product successfully. They are the ones who should contribute to the marketing copy and write the manuals.