sound out from a pa?

deepestend · #1 11-10-2004, 04:46 PM

I have a couple of microphones around our reh. space and I want to hook them all into a mixer to get a good mix that I can put into my computer for recordings. The only problem right now is that I don't have a sound out from my pa for the vocals.

My question is... is it better to mic the pa speaker or figure out how to do a sound out from the pa. AND, how do I get sound out from the PA? Can I use the effects out?

THanks.

Stu L. · #2 11-10-2004, 05:00 PM

Is the mixer powered? If not, then run a line from the main out to the input of your PC (watch the levels, you don't want to overpower the PC). Or try running an AUX out, it's just a little harder to get an even mix.

deepestend · #3 11-10-2004, 05:08 PM

The problem is that the main outs for the PA are being used for the pa speakers. My own mixer is powered and I know how to get that into my computer. It's how to get the pa into the external mixer.

nicoli · #4 11-10-2004, 05:35 PM

Why not just overdub the vocals later without having the singer going through the PA?

Or, does the board have any aux bus outs?

adam on bass · #5 11-10-2004, 05:40 PM

I'll ask it. What boards are you using what inputs are going where? This is hard to figure out with no schematic.

deepestend · #6 11-10-2004, 10:12 PM

I don't want to overdub the vocals because this is just to get good reh. tapes-- not necessarily for "studio" recordings. For "studio" recordings, I would def. overdub the vocals.

The pa is a soundtech 308d, I believe... and i"m trying to get a manual. It's one of those all in one type deals with eight channels, but no direct tape out or audio out other than the outs to the speakers. My mixer is a behringer eurorack-- I believe.

All I really want to know is if there's a way to get the vocals from the pa directly into the mixer or if I should just mic the pa speakers.

There is an fx out on the front of the pa, but I don't know if that's a good enough feed to put the vocals into my mixer.

Once I get everything into my mixer-- which is powered-- I'll run it all into a soundcard and into my laptop.

nicoli · #7 11-10-2004, 11:00 PM

OK... so could you not run the vocals straight to the mixer and take an aux send from there back to the PA?

The effects send might be good enough to do it as well, have you tried it?

adam on bass · #8 11-10-2004, 11:06 PM

Is there channel inserts? You can run inserts as direct outs with the 1/4 inserted to just the tip.

Mottlefeeder · #9 11-11-2004, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepestend

The problem is that the main outs for the PA are being used for the pa speakers. My own mixer is powered and I know how to get that into my computer. It's how to get the pa into the external mixer.

Some passive DI boxes have an attenuator switch for connecting to instrument, line or speaker terminals. You connect your amp to the DI, and the DI to the speaker using the parallel pair of 1/4 inch Jacks sockets on the DI box. This will give you a balanced Mic level signal to your mixer, and no ground loop problems. Dead easy unless your speaker connections are Speakon, or XLR.

deepestend · #10 11-11-2004, 10:20 AM

Thanks for the info. guys, I'm going to have to wait till I get back into my studio to try it out.

Stu L. · #11 11-11-2004, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepestend

All I really want to know is if there's a way to get the vocals from the pa directly into the mixer or if I should just mic the pa speakers.

Easy, splitter cable. Either build, or have your local music store make one, an XLR cable that can feed both mixers. Basically, female to two (2) male XLR's.

Joe P · #12 11-11-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubi19

Easy, splitter cable. Either build, or have your local music store make one, an XLR cable that can feed both mixers. Basically, female to two (2) male XLR's.

I dunno about messin with the passive mic impedances like that. It's easy to split active outputs, though - just run simple 1/4-inch splitters on the board outputs that go to the PA amp. Two lines to the amp, and two for the card should work fine! The only problem would be if the card can't take the high voltage that the PA needs to drive it to the level you want - in that case you can run one or the other to another preamp or board or whatever, so that the two levels can be different and independant.

It's almost always OK to split an active output like that into two or more hi-Z active inputs, but remember that it's generally NOT good to use splitters to 'mix' two outputs into one input!

Joe

deepestend · #13 11-11-2004, 11:40 AM

It's one of those all-in-one PA's where the mixer and inputs and PA amp are all in one box... Are you saying that I should just split the main outputs from that all in one box (that go to the PA speakers) and then use that signal for my recording?

Droog · #14 11-11-2004, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepestend

It's one of those all-in-one PA's where the mixer and inputs and PA amp are all in one box... Are you saying that I should just split the main outputs from that all in one box (that go to the PA speakers) and then use that signal for my recording?

NO! Do not send a speaker level signal into your computer or your Eurodeck.

Quote:

All I really want to know is if there's a way to get the vocals from the pa directly into the mixer or if I should just mic the pa speakers.

To me, you are thinking backwards. This is my suggestion, though others have said it, hopefully this will help.

1.Set up all of your mics.
2.Plug them into your mixer(Eurodeck).
3.Build a mix (yes I know no vocal through PA, sit tight)
4. Take the main outs of mixer and send to Compy.
5. Turn up master fader untill you get levels you like.

Now for the vocals PA
1. Locate the Aux 1 send knob on the channel that you have the vocal mic on. Turn it to unity or about 2 oclock or so.
2. Locate the Aux 1 send master knob. Turn this to unity.
3. Find the 1/4" Aux 1 send jack.
4. Patch a cable from the Aux 1 send jack to channel 1 input on powered mixer.
5. Set the level on channel 1 on the powered mixer to unity.
6. Start bringing up the Master Volume level on the powered mixer, set level how you like.

This just a starting block, obviously I can't mix for you so you will have to make adjustments to get the sound to desire. If you find the vocal distorting in the pa turn down the channel you have it plugged into on the powered mixer(channel 1 in this case). If anything is distorting on the recording turn down that mics gain on the Eurodeck. If the whole mix is clipping digitaly on the compy pull your master fader (on the eurodeck) down. Also, I am taking for granted that all you need through the PA is vocals, if you need to send anything else locate that channel on the Eurodeck and turn up the aux 1 send knob untill you hear the desired amount in the PA.

Sounds like you are a noob to the signal flow world I hope this helps, if not keep asking Q's .

P.S. I realize now you said Eurorack not Eurodeck, you know what I mean.

Stu L. · #15 11-11-2004, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe P

I dunno about messin with the passive mic impedances like that. It's easy to split active outputs, though - just run simple 1/4-inch splitters on the board outputs that go to the PA amp. Two lines to the amp, and two for the card should work fine! The only problem would be if the card can't take the high voltage that the PA needs to drive it to the level you want - in that case you can run one or the other to another preamp or board or whatever, so that the two levels can be different and independant.

It's almost always OK to split an active output like that into two or more hi-Z active inputs, but remember that it's generally NOT good to use splitters to 'mix' two outputs into one input!

Joe

Splitter snake? Same as above mentioned, is it not? I'll admit, the whole impedence thing is over my head. Good post

And I really like the way you explained the process to him in that last post. Easy to read.

Big Benner · #16 11-18-2004, 05:38 PM

I know this is going to sound strange to a lot of you guys but it worked for me.

I set the band in a circle with 2 SM 57s in the middle pointing opposite ways and then had a third SM 57 right beside the vocalists mic (another 57 that went into the PA). I then used a mini 4 channel mixer and had the two mics left and right and the vocal right down the center ALL AT EQUAL VOLUMES. It sounded great. The vocal were not overpowering and were crisp and clear because I was getting them from the source.

I would suggest giving something like that a try. It sounds like you have the extra mics so just stick one in the sigers face and you should get a good clean vocal.

nashvillebill · #17 11-18-2004, 06:15 PM

I'm sorta confused, maybe, but from the original post, it seems like he has all the mics going into the PA, but can't figure out how to connect the PA to the computer.

He had the right idea, using the effects out. Many PA's have an Aux Send, but if there isn't one, the Effects Out is basically the same thing.

Connect the Effects Out jack to the Line In on the computer. Each input channel probably has a knob that will adjust the amount of that channel that is sent to the Effects Out. Use these knobs to adjust the "mix" that goes to the effects out. There also may be a knob by the Effects Out jack that is a "master volume" that controls the level of the signal sent to the Effects Out jack. If set too high here, the computer's recording will be distorted. If set too low, the recorded volume will be too low and will get noisy if you try to boost it on the computer.

Hope this helps.