TBers, please help me figure out the best way to do this

[Dave Muscato]

Hey folks,

Thanks is advance for your help; I really appreciate it. I decided that if you guys can help me come up with a solution that works, I'll make another donation to TB - thanks for your help!

I'm trying to figure out the best way to record guitar lessons and burn them onto CD for my students. Sorry for the length of this post, but what I want to do is pretty specific and rules out a lot of common solutions.

I'm trying to find something that would allow me to...

1) while continuing to record, begin a new track (on a CD, not as in an additional simultaneous input) without stopping the live recording for more than a few seconds

2) burn the completed lesson (all CD tracks in order) to a CDR, while I start the next lesson recording (i.e. burn and record at the same time)

3) Pause the live recording when I'm not speaking, a footswitch would be nice

4) Run the audio output of my computer into the recording mixed in with the guitars and my voice

The equipment I have is a Presonus Firepod (8 mic preamps), two Line6 PODs (one for me, one for the student), and I plan to get some kind of drum machine (or something like a Boss BR-600) and a microphone for me and the student to talk into. My computer is an iMac G5.

I also have a power amp and wedge monitor available so we can hear what we're doing.

I'm not opposed to purchasing something like a Fender GDEC if it would suit my purposes better.

The problem with the Firepod is that I would have to do my mixing on the computer, which could be a problem, since I want to record the computer's output as one of the inputs.

Is there a recording software out there that allows you to mark index points (new tracks on a CD) without creating a new "song" file? I'm fairly familiar with Garageband, but I can't use that for lessons because it takes too long to mixdown each section of the lesson ("song"), convert it to MP3, and then open a new song file and start the next section of the lesson (next track on the CD). However, that's the right idea for what I want to do.

Is there, perhaps, a dictation software that would allow me to do that?

I've looked into the Boss BR-600, and I like the built-in drum machine and phrase trainer (slows down without changing pitch). The problem with it is that it only accepts 2 simultaneous inputs, so I would have to mix to stereo before going into the unit... I could get a little Behringer or Mackie mixer to do that, but with a Presonus Firepod and an iMac G5 already, it seems like there ought to be a better way to do it without buying ANOTHER piece of equipment. Also, since the BR-600 records to Compact Flash, I would have to upload all the tracks at the end of the lesson to my computer and burn them onto CD, which might take awhile. That would mean I couldn't start the next lesson right away, unless I got two units, or two CF cards and a card reader. Hmm... that might actually work...

I downloaded the manual for the BR-600 from Roland's website, but I can't tell from it how long it would take to start a new track (new song). If I have to mixdown the previous song and save it to the CF card before I could open a new session (new section of the lesson), that won't work. I need to be able to start the next track on the CD within a few seconds pause.

I also have an Olympus DS-2 digital stereo voice recorder, which can mark index points, and has a stereo input, so I could mix everything (computer audio, both guitars, voice, and drum machine) using a little Behringer or Mackie unit, into that. The only problem is, I don't want to spend 10 minutes at the end of a half-hour lesson uploading this to my computer, converting to CD audio, and then burning onto a CD.

Any ideas? Please let me know! Thanks very much,

Dave

[Danimal00]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Hey folks,

Thanks is advance for your help; I really appreciate it. I decided that if you guys can help me come up with a solution that works, I'll make another donation to TB - thanks for your help!

I'm trying to figure out the best way to record guitar lessons and burn them onto CD for my students. Sorry for the length of this post, but what I want to do is pretty specific and rules out a lot of common solutions.

I'm trying to find something that would allow me to...

1) while continuing to record, begin a new track (on a CD, not as in an additional simultaneous input) without stopping the live recording for more than a few seconds

2) burn the completed lesson (all CD tracks in order) to a CDR, while I start the next lesson recording (i.e. burn and record at the same time)

3) Pause the live recording when I'm not speaking, a footswitch would be nice

4) Run the audio output of my computer into the recording mixed in with the guitars and my voice

The equipment I have is a Presonus Firepod (8 mic preamps), two Line6 PODs (one for me, one for the student), and I plan to get some kind of drum machine (or something like a Boss BR-600) and a microphone for me and the student to talk into. My computer is an iMac G5.

I also have a power amp and wedge monitor available so we can hear what we're doing.

I'm not opposed to purchasing something like a Fender GDEC if it would suit my purposes better.

The problem with the Firepod is that I would have to do my mixing on the computer, which could be a problem, since I want to record the computer's output as one of the inputs.

Is there a recording software out there that allows you to mark index points (new tracks on a CD) without creating a new "song" file? I'm fairly familiar with Garageband, but I can't use that for lessons because it takes too long to mixdown each section of the lesson ("song"), convert it to MP3, and then open a new song file and start the next section of the lesson (next track on the CD). However, that's the right idea for what I want to do.

Is there, perhaps, a dictation software that would allow me to do that?

I've looked into the Boss BR-600, and I like the built-in drum machine and phrase trainer (slows down without changing pitch). The problem with it is that it only accepts 2 simultaneous inputs, so I would have to mix to stereo before going into the unit... I could get a little Behringer or Mackie mixer to do that, but with a Presonus Firepod and an iMac G5 already, it seems like there ought to be a better way to do it without buying ANOTHER piece of equipment. Also, since the BR-600 records to Compact Flash, I would have to upload all the tracks at the end of the lesson to my computer and burn them onto CD, which might take awhile. That would mean I couldn't start the next lesson right away, unless I got two units, or two CF cards and a card reader. Hmm... that might actually work...

I downloaded the manual for the BR-600 from Roland's website, but I can't tell from it how long it would take to start a new track (new song). If I have to mixdown the previous song and save it to the CF card before I could open a new session (new section of the lesson), that won't work. I need to be able to start the next track on the CD within a few seconds pause.

I also have an Olympus DS-2 digital stereo voice recorder, which can mark index points, and has a stereo input, so I could mix everything (computer audio, both guitars, voice, and drum machine) using a little Behringer or Mackie unit, into that. The only problem is, I don't want to spend 10 minutes at the end of a half-hour lesson uploading this to my computer, converting to CD audio, and then burning onto a CD.

Any ideas? Please let me know! Thanks very much,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Are you wanting to capture the lesson for the student to take with him/her?

Maybe I am thinking too simply here, but I think that this would take care of your needs.

There is a Dual bay CDR recorder from Marantz called the CDR510. If you want the final product to be on CD, why not record directly to a CD? You can easily add track increments, as well as have it automatically add a track ID every minute so you don't have to think about it. It has different sets of inputs and outputs for each CD drive.

You can take all of the outputs of the Pods, mics, and the CD Deck if needed into the Firepod to the software. You can have the software (GarageBand) do the mix in real time for you and output a stereo track, digitally to the CDR510 via the SPDIF connection, or analog via the TRS out of the FirePod to the XLR Balanced Line inputs of the CDR510. You can still have duplicate analog audio outs of the Firepod going to headphones, speakers, or whatever.

1) New track IDs, not a problem
2) Finalize the disk when done, a 2 minute process or less
3) You can pause the recording deck and unpause it. There is a RS232 control port on the back of the deck for external control. You may be able to rig up a footswitch if needed. It does come with a IR Remote.
4) You should be able to have the FirePod as a Core Audio device and set it as the default soundcard for the Mac, so you can have it using the stereo out. If you are not able to do this with the software that you have, a little 4 x 2 line mixer can take care of this in the analog domain.

At the end of the lesson, if you want to make a copy of the CD that you just finalized, you could pop it into the computer and make a quick copy. The CDR510 has totally different controls and connections for both sides, so you can be playing along with the CD (routing it through the computer) and record everything directly to the CDR. This unit will also record on a CDRW, so if the student is wanting to re-use the disc week after week instead of archiving lessons, they would have the option to.

Please let me know if I missed addressing one of your needs or PM me if you would like to talk about this further.

Thanks!
Dan

[Dave Muscato]

Hey Dan, you're right on, I want to make a recording of the entire lesson for my students to take with them. A straight-to-CD recording sounds like a good idea.

I would also like to be able to slow down, cue and loop CDs during the lesson (while on tape). Would I be better off with something like the Roland CD-2, and a Tascam CDGT-1 guitar trainer, or a Numark Axis 9?

I really appreciate it!

Thanks,
Dave

[Danimal00]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Hey Dan, you're right on, I want to make a recording of the entire lesson for my students to take with them. A straight-to-CD recording sounds like a good idea.

I would also like to be able to slow down, cue and loop CDs during the lesson (while on tape). Would I be better off with something like the Roland CD-2, and a Tascam CDGT-1 guitar trainer, or a Numark Axis 9?

I really appreciate it!

Thanks,
Dave

Hi Dave,

The CD-2 does offer some neat things for playback such as built in speakers, and some pitch and tempo controls. The line level inputs are unbalanced RCA, and there is not a digital input. It also does not have the auto track increment and it does not have a remote. If you don't need those things, the CD-2 would be fine as a recorder.

You could add any CD player to it for playback with control over pitch and time if needed such as the Tascam CDGT1/CDBT1 or the Axis9. If you don't need to control tempo, and don't need the internal speakers and mics of the CD2, the CDR510 would be the most cost effective all in one unit with both balanced and digital connectivity to the FirePod.

The CD-2 plus a CD player with tempo and pitch control will be more expensive.

Thanks,
Dan

[Dave Muscato]

The Marantz unit sounds great, however I just surfed over to Sweetwater and it's $750... yikes. That's 40 lessons before I even break even! I might skip the recording aspect for the time being and get a Tascam CDGT1. I will definitely consider the Marantz unit in the future, though. Is there a cheaper setup that would accomplish nearly the same thing?

Primarily, I want to record the entire lesson and burn it to a CD so my student can take it home and listen to the examples, exercises, etc. Is there a way to do that using an iMac and a Firepod? I don't think my computer can handle a 30 or 60 minute uninterrupted recording without freezing. I'm considering the Boss BR-600, and just uploading it to my computer and burning to CD via my iMac's built-in CD burner at the end of the lesson. The only drawback is the time issue, but I suppose I could have 25 minute/55 minute lessons to allow for this. If I went that route, I would also need a separate CD player that could do the tempo changes (the BR-600 has one built in, I understand, but it doesn't have a CD tray and I seriously doubt it can do that while it's also recording). One of the Tascam units would work well, I think.

Thanks for your help, by the way. I really appreciate it and whatever I get will certainly be through Sweetwater.

Thanks,

Dave


Thanks very much,

Dave

[Danimal00]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

The Marantz unit sounds great, however I just surfed over to Sweetwater and it's $750... yikes. That's 40 lessons before I even break even! I might skip the recording aspect for the time being and get a Tascam CDGT1. I will definitely consider the Marantz unit in the future, though. Is there a cheaper setup that would accomplish nearly the same thing?

Primarily, I want to record the entire lesson and burn it to a CD so my student can take it home and listen to the examples, exercises, etc. Is there a way to do that using an iMac and a Firepod? I don't think my computer can handle a 30 or 60 minute uninterrupted recording without freezing. I'm considering the Boss BR-600, and just uploading it to my computer and burning to CD via my iMac's built-in CD burner at the end of the lesson. The only drawback is the time issue, but I suppose I could have 25 minute/55 minute lessons to allow for this. If I went that route, I would also need a separate CD player that could do the tempo changes (the BR-600 has one built in, I understand, but it doesn't have a CD tray and I seriously doubt it can do that while it's also recording). One of the Tascam units would work well, I think.

Thanks for your help, by the way. I really appreciate it and whatever I get will certainly be through Sweetwater.

Thanks,

Dave


Thanks very much,

Dave

Hi Dave,

Yes, the CDGT1 will do the playback of everything and do all of the pitch and tempo changes, but it does not do any recording. If you can get your computer to be stable, you can do the recording there. Just create a stereo track in the recording software that is fed by the software mixer output in realtime and be recording that as well. When the lesson is over, you will have a stereo track that you can import into a CD burning program and burn the disc right away. This does not account for track IDs, unless you use a CD burning program that allows you to place them wherever you want before the burning of the CD.

The Cost of the BR600 plus the CDGT-1 plus the Power supply for the GT1 is less than 200 dollars away from the cost of the CDR510. If cost is key, I'd try recording to the Mac.

Also, In case you didn't know, and you wanted a tascam unit geared toward the Bassist, the CDBT1 would be the one to get. It has similar features as the CDGT1, but the CDBT1 has Bass amp modeling instead of guitar amp modeling.

Thanks,
Dan

[Dave Muscato]

Thanks Dan, I really appreciate your time and effort in helping me figure this out. FYI, I am planning to teach guitar primarily, as there is a bigger market for guitar lessons, and pick up as many bass students as I can as well. I'd like to have my setup ideal for both, so I will probably gear it toward guitar and simply use relatively unaffected settings for the bass lessons.

I was just thinking, I might start with a Fender GDEC and the Tascam CD trainer instead of the BR 600. The GDEC has a lot of built in drum loops in different styles, with accompanying bass lines. It's not as versatile as the BR 600's drum machine, and doesn't have the recording capabilities of course, but it might work for what I want to do.

Do you (or anybody else that checks this out!) know of any Mac software that would let me mark new tracks while recording like that? I have Garageband on here and I could easily set up a stereo track to burn to CD, however I have two concerns with that:

1) a new track on the CD would mean opening a new session in Garageband, which takes just a minute, and
2) exporting the Garageband files so I could burn them takes awhile

That also means I would have a terribly difficult time using my computer as a lesson aide: Surfing OLGA, YouTube, iTunes, Rhapsody, etc would really interfere with the smoothness of the recording (or even lock up the program), and I would have the additional problem of trying to get the audio from surfing onto tape. I would prefer a standalone unit that I could add later (as finances permitted) so I could record the lessons. In the meantime, I'm considering a GDEC and a Tascam CD guitar phrase trainer, and foregoing the recording aspect. I also have a Fender Rumble 25 that I could use for bass lessons until I figure something else out.

Thanks for your help! I appreciate it.

Dave

[Danimal00]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

Thanks Dan, I really appreciate your time and effort in helping me figure this out. FYI, I am planning to teach guitar primarily, as there is a bigger market for guitar lessons, and pick up as many bass students as I can as well. I'd like to have my setup ideal for both, so I will probably gear it toward guitar and simply use relatively unaffected settings for the bass lessons.

I was just thinking, I might start with a Fender GDEC and the Tascam CD trainer instead of the BR 600. The GDEC has a lot of built in drum loops in different styles, with accompanying bass lines. It's not as versatile as the BR 600's drum machine, and doesn't have the recording capabilities of course, but it might work for what I want to do.

Do you (or anybody else that checks this out!) know of any Mac software that would let me mark new tracks while recording like that? I have Garageband on here and I could easily set up a stereo track to burn to CD, however I have two concerns with that:

1) a new track on the CD would mean opening a new session in Garageband, which takes just a minute, and
2) exporting the Garageband files so I could burn them takes awhile

That also means I would have a terribly difficult time using my computer as a lesson aide: Surfing OLGA, YouTube, iTunes, Rhapsody, etc would really interfere with the smoothness of the recording (or even lock up the program), and I would have the additional problem of trying to get the audio from surfing onto tape. I would prefer a standalone unit that I could add later (as finances permitted) so I could record the lessons. In the meantime, I'm considering a GDEC and a Tascam CD guitar phrase trainer, and foregoing the recording aspect. I also have a Fender Rumble 25 that I could use for bass lessons until I figure something else out.

Thanks for your help! I appreciate it.

Dave

Hi Dave,

That is something that is usually part of a 2 track editing/mastering program. I use WaveLab on my Creation Station PC, and I can drop track IDs wherever I want on the timeline. I am pretty certain that two track editors on the Mac such as BIAS Peak could do this too. I am not aware that you can do anything like this in Garageband.

Thanks
Dan