UUURRRGG!! I can not cut throught the mix

fretcrusher · #1 02-04-2007, 01:55 PM

I have a wall of custom basses that I play. Live they are great! But while playing back 6 hours of recordings I just do not cut through the mix!

All my tracks are seperate so I can redo the tracks easily. I was playning several different basses through my Origin Pre to a DIGI 002 and the bass just kinda is not there untill you boost the volume up to where all you hear is bass.

Back in the day I always recorded with an Alembic or a music man. Do I need to go and buy one of these basses to cut through or is there something I can do.

WalterBush · #2 02-04-2007, 02:02 PM

Turn everyone else down, or at least, turn down the frequencies that are stomping on your bass tone. As well, cranking your midrange helps.

Unfortunately, these things are a case-by-case basis; there are a ton of reasons why you might not be cutting through. Can you post a link to a tune so's we can hear why you might not be loud enough?

FretlessArt · #3 02-04-2007, 03:01 PM

Its hard to give advice without hearing what you have to work with.

It sounds like you are fairly seasoned at recording so at the risk of stating the obvious I will suggest a few things.

A common recording error is having all the levels to hot and not leaving any headroom. If most of the tracks are peaking above 9dB then you are running to hot. Try to mix the Bass, the Kick, the snare and the high hat with a Flat EQ to an average track level peak of 3dB. This will establish your beginnig rythem section thresholds. Once you are happy with these levels try to normalize the rest of the tracks the same way and then start your EQ process.

In general it is better to cut with the eq then to add. So to hear more low end start by trimming back the higher frequencies.

Hope this isn't to genereic.

Dave · #4 02-04-2007, 03:06 PM

I had the same problem with my Roscoe when I recorded...I cut the on board lows A LOT and just made my track louder to compensate. That helped a good bit.

luknfur · #5 02-05-2007, 12:21 AM

FWIW:

take this with a grain of salt cause I don't record and am just now starting to dink with it some.

Cutting in general is a mids thing. When I was assembling the pup forum Bass Tone Glossary I was in lots of links by recording engineers and recall that certain mid frequencies and keeping the low end boom down is where cutting comes in. Which mids depends on the tune and what other instruments are doing but there were a few standard frequencies that were repetitively mentioned.

Also seems to be standard to record flat and dink with the mix later. Smash mentioned what sounded like a good idea to me in recording a track flat and a track to live settings. Then you can add some variation and mix from the live stuff if it works well.

caesarbass · #6 02-05-2007, 12:24 AM

Have tried putting high pass filters on the guitars to see if that lets some of the low end frequencies cut through? Especially if you have a few tracks of distorted guitars, they may be taking up a lot of the low end....

remo · #7 02-05-2007, 12:48 AM

What monitors are you using? maybe you just can't hear the bass when it's low because your monitors (speakers) don't go that low?

Petebass · #8 02-05-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caesarbass

Have tried putting high pass filters on the guitars to see if that lets some of the low end frequencies cut through? Especially if you have a few tracks of distorted guitars, they may be taking up a lot of the low end....

Yep. When things get lost in the mix, is often because two or more instruments are trying to exit the speaker at the same frequency at the same time. It's kinda like when two fat people try to run through a skinny doorway at the same time. If they make it through, it will need some manoeuvring and difficulty.

If you bass tracks sound nice when solo'd, my guess is that something else is generating the same frequencies. Often the kick drum is the culprit but it can be anything - Keys, guitars, anything.

How to fix this depends on the song and the style. sometimes boosting mids on the bass helps, sometimes cutting lows. The solution usually presents itself once you've identified which instruments are fighting for the same place in the frequency spectrum.

fretcrusher · #9 02-05-2007, 08:40 AM

Thanks guys!! Well I found out I was fighting the acoustic guitar. The guitarist loved his boomyness

and would not let us pull it down. I ran out and bought a SR5

and now with the more mids that these basses produce I cut. Well actually I railroad through the mix

Thanks for all the help I believe I have a recording only bass know since it is orange

Dale

dougjwray · #10 02-05-2007, 09:22 AM

I've had the same exact problem with one particular acoustic guitarist, who insisted on boosting the 100 Hz on his instrument.

He was the boss, so I couldn't do anything about it. I think he heard the overall mix as HIM, with some other, extraneous, puny sounds floating around, barely noticed.

I also used a Stingray 5 to handle it.
Subsequently, I've discovered that a passive bass (Fender P or J... duh) with flatwound strings helps, too. The flatwounds are important... the drier a bass sounds, the more it doesn't compete with the hellishly abundant overtones put out by an acoustic guitar. (Mileage may vary.)

hbarcat · #11 02-11-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

I've had the same exact problem with one particular acoustic guitarist, who insisted on boosting the 100 Hz on his instrument.

He was the boss, so I couldn't do anything about it. I think he heard the overall mix as HIM, with some other, extraneous, puny sounds floating around, barely noticed.

I think that every person here has seen this exact same situation at least once.

I'm fighting with our rhythm player every week to stop cranking up the bass knob on his guitar amp to level 10. The drummer and I can't convince him that it's not his job as a guitar player to saturate the bass frequencies.

seanm · #12 02-11-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fretcrusher

Thanks guys!! Well I found out I was fighting the acoustic guitar. The guitarist loved his boomyness

and would not let us pull it down. I ran out and bought a SR5

and now with the more mids that these basses produce I cut. Well actually I railroad through the mix

Thanks for all the help I believe I have a recording only bass know since it is orange

Dale

Acoustic guitars can be a real fight. With their active preamps they tend to love to just boost the bass. And if the guitar player loves to play full chords, you are in trouble.

Congrats on finding a solution