4ths in thumb position

[shwashwa]

4ths in thumb position



i'm posting this in both the jazz and orchestral technique sections because while i'm currently asking it in a jazz context, the question is equally valid in a classical format.

how do you play 4ths in thumb position? i have some ideas, but i want to hear opinions. the specific line i'm talking about would be like up a fourth and down a minor third ie. g-c-a. very fast, and this pattern transposes a few times so it would be nice to have a fingering that i can move.

i'm personally toying with the idea of using fingers 2 and 3 for the 4th and the thumb on the A. let's hear your ideas.

[quenoil]

That's exactly the fingering I would use. When I practice fourths in thumb position I almost always use 2-3.

[Justin K-ski]

You can play that pattern all in one position on one string. I saw Christian McBride with Freddie Hubbard and he used this fingering for a similar pattern.

G C A
+ 3 1

or you can learn to barre with the thumb. You'll have to do a little roll with your LH until you build up enough callous to do it without moving your hand.

G C A
+ + 1

Hope this helps.

[Jason Sypher]

Over to orchestra technique because I am mainly thinking arco here. Say I was to play a rapid succession of notes (arpeggio) in thumb position like:

c-f-a-f-a-f-a-f c-f-a-f-a-f-a

or

c-f-c-f-c-f-a

Does anyone have any tricks of the trade to make that smoother?

I do agree with the previous one string approach for that particular passage after I tried it out on the bass....one string, one sound, very consistent and controllable

[shwashwa]

if i'm reading your line correctly it seems like the 4th on one string may work for you too. c=+, f=3, a=2. are all those repeated c's and f's the same ones or are the moving up the fingerboard?

[Jason Sypher]

It could be the best choice. Unfortunately, I usually go for the cross. I'm going to give it a try tomorrow and see if it can become more natural. Another issue to discuss in the same area for me is trilling large intervals like a maj third or fourth in thumb position. Perhaps another thread after I compose my thoughts.

[shwashwa]

i'd like to ressurrect this thread as i'm still being driven nuts by thumb position pentatonic patterns. how would you finger this in thumb position starting on high c: c (down to) g down to f up to Bb down to g down to f down to c down to Bb up to Eb ? lets say 16th notes at 100bpm. or faster.

[quenoil]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

i'd like to ressurrect this thread as i'm still being driven nuts by thumb position pentatonic patterns. how would you finger this in thumb position starting on high c: c (down to) g down to f up to Bb down to g down to f down to c down to Bb up to Eb ? lets say 16th notes at 100bpm. or faster.

I'd do: 3 - T - 2 - 3 - T - 3 - 2 - 1 - 2

[shwashwa]

Originally Posted by quenoil

I'd do: 3 - T - 2 - 3 - T - 3 - 2 - 1 - 2

very cool. thanks for the reply. could i impose on you to tell me how you'd finger the following? it's from a similar thread i started in the jazz technique forum. this other pattern is slightly different and presents a different challenge trying to keep it all in thumb position...

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald
I don't know that I fully understand the passage you mention, but let me illustrate a more common descending pentatonic patterns with lots of 4ths:

C-Bb-G-C...Bb-G-F-Bb...G-F-Eb-G...F-Eb-C-F...Eb-C-Bb-Eb...C etc.

In a pentatonic situation like this one in TP, I'd always find an alternative to the "bridge" or "bar" method of using the same finger to play the 4ths. For example, one possible fingering for the above pattern would be (where "+" stands for thumb):

3-1-2-3...1-3-1-+...3-1-+-3...1-+-2-3...1-3-1-+...3 etc.

While it might seem unwieldy at first, it does enable you to put full arm weight on each LH stop and make the whole passage playable in a legato phrasing. Intonation is a bit tricky, but when isn't it? IMO, YMMV, YMWCB, etc...

[quenoil]

Originally Posted by shwashwa

very cool. thanks for the reply. could i impose on you to tell me how you'd finger the following? it's from a similar thread i started in the jazz technique forum. this other pattern is slightly different and presents a different challenge trying to keep it all in thumb position...

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald
I don't know that I fully understand the passage you mention, but let me illustrate a more common descending pentatonic patterns with lots of 4ths:

C-Bb-G-C...Bb-G-F-Bb...G-F-Eb-G...F-Eb-C-F...Eb-C-Bb-Eb...C etc.

Ok, well, without my bass in front of me I think I'd do this:
3-2-t-3...2-t-2-3...t-2-1-t...2-1-2-3...1-3-1-2

with no shifts, just staying in thumb position. that last group would probably be a bit tricky.... is it clear where the string crossings are and all that?