Is the bass fighting me?

[Sean Ormiston]

Hey all,

I think it was my love of jazz bass that got me to playing upright, but as I am in my first year of learning, I do a lot of practice with the bow and simandl, and am getting hooked to the sound. I've since been keeping my ears open for how the double bass functions in classical music, and I don't want that world to pass me by.

Thing is, I have a plywood bass. Not a bad one though; two teachers have told me that it has a gorgeous and sophisticated tone played arco, and I agree...it certainly caught my attention when I was buying. (I belive it's an Eberle, maybe thirty years old. A "student bass," but a good find!)

I'm not aware of how much of a difference exists in the "reactivity" between plywood and carved. It certainly seems like the bass, although producing very good tone, can be stubborn on the attack and require a bit of digging to get the fundamental out of the string.

Does this make me classically handicapped? How do people approach learning classical music when that carved bass is still in the indeterminate future?

P.S. since we're talking about how reactive the bass is to arco, I should tell you I play a french bow with coarse, black hair, and Nymans brand rosin. Might have I have better success with a different hair or rosin, or bow?

Thanks y'all bass playin community!
-Sean

[kpo]

Originally Posted by Sean Ormiston

How do people approach learning classical music when that carved bass is still in the indeterminate future?

P.S. Might have I have better success with a different hair or rosin, or bow?

Often on a "student bass" it's the strings and the set-up that can hold you back. If your teachers are fine with your bow hold, etc., then the problems might be coming from the strings themselves.

As far as looking forward to a new bass, just keep dropping coins into the savings account, and do your best to make your current bass sound exactly how you want it to! Doesn't hurt to keep shopping around to try lots of other basses, whether you're ready to buy or not.

[mcnaire2004]

Maybe your not putting enough rosin on your bow?

[bassface747]

I really don't think a carved bass is an automatic indicator of higher quality over ply, even in old school intruments. I am in more or less in the same position - I have access to both, and I much prefer the 40 year old beat-up German plywood over the new expensive carved. It's not even a matter of set-up, it's just that one speaks to me and the other doesn't.

You will not want to invest the practice time in an instrument you do not desire to play, plywood or carved, and you will sound better on an instrument that speaks to your heart, because of how you perceive the insrument.

As for getting that fundamental tone, strings make a huge difference. Try some Obligatos?

[Sean Ormiston]

Sound suggestion. To the string forum!!

[Sean Ormiston]

I should clarify this: it's not a POS. It's well set up by a good shop
(David Gage's in manhattan.) My left hand isn't struggling to stop the strings. It's just that the strings tend to sqwauk at me, and the A can be a little touchy about getting it's fundamental tone. I'm wondering how much of this is attributable to it being a plywood, because carved has the reputation in arco.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by Sean Ormiston

I should clarify this: it's not a POS. It's well set up by a good shop
(David Gage's in manhattan.) My left hand isn't struggling to stop the strings. It's just that the strings tend to sqwauk at me, and the A can be a little touchy about getting it's fundamental tone. I'm wondering how much of this is attributable to it being a plywood, because carved has the reputation in arco.

Since you've established that you don't have a POS, I don't think the problems you're describing have much to do with the difference between plywood and carved. These things come to mind instead:

(1) bow pressure;
(2) bow speed;
(3) bow placement;
(4) bow hair tension;
(5) lack of sufficient rosin;
(6) excess rosin;
(7) type of strings;
(8) installation of strings; and
(9) age of strings.

Try variations in the above cheap factors before resorting to the most expensive option.

[Hector Wolff]

Sean,

Unless you have a real crap ply, don't worry. The ply bass is not likely to be the problem.

My daughter has been playing a decent quality student ply (Shen SB100) for years now in all county orchestras and she gets a very satisfying tone out of it.

Yes, for arco a carved will pay off, but what's holding you back is likely your strings. If arco is your priority then strings really matter.

Also when my bass teacher was playing with us in the community orchestrs, he routinely played one of the beat up school ply basses, and you can bet he still sounded better than any of us on our carved basses.

[Sean Ormiston]

The strings are Tomastik Infield Superflexibles...been on for about two months now. I installed them myself...and the installation seems to be alright (I did some research first). Any opinions on how these perform arco?

- Sean

[mcnaire2004]

Well, if you haven't been playing arco long, maybe you just need to relax and keep playing slow things till you get used to the bow.

[Jason Sypher]

Sounds like a technique issue to me. You've only been at this a very short time so slow down, relax and continue your studies in a zen-like methodical manner. Progress comes when you least expect it but the best way to help it along is a solid practice schedule, a good teacher/guide, lots of listening and watching other players who you admire. If your teacher thinks your instrument is set up properly with good strings then just leave it there. It's a waste of time and energy at this juncture to get string obsessed. Stay the steady course.

[Roonz]

Originally Posted by mcnaire2004

Well, if you haven't been playing arco long, maybe you just need to relax and keep playing slow things till you get used to the bow.

Right... it takes considerable diligence to develop the bow arm. Practice fundamental techniques slowly and to perfection. Speed will come later. This is standard advice, but it took me 25 years to fully understand how important it is. Just do it.

Roonz.

[kpo]

Originally Posted by Sean Ormiston

The strings are Tomastik Infield Superflexibles...been on for about two months now.
- Sean

Personally, I am completely unhappy with superflexibles; they were scratchy and whiney the few times I tried them.
You would profit fantastically from getting Pirastro Permanents or Thomastic Bel Cantos. Even D'addario helicores. I *love* the Bel Cantos.

Seriously, learning the mechanics and technique is more important, but getting strings that actually have the ability to sound good will help... a lot! If you buy cheap scratchy strings, it's harder to know if you're doing well at all!