Chroms in half/first pos.

[TomGale]

I don't remember if I ever posted this before but why not if again? As a faithful Simandlite, I always played - lets say, a low Bb chromatic scale
starting on Bb, 1-1,2,4 open D followed by 1-1,2,4, open G etc.
After a few decades, I ran into a VERY rapid passage than included that scale. It was a mess for the section and it was caused by that blur on the 1-1. After long thought. I tried 1,2 - 1,2 instead of 1-1,2,4. The shift - or pivot! - was now clean as a whistle even though it was a half step further shift. So I broke the rules. Try it and I don't think you'll sue me!
Tom Gale
ASODB.com

[Andrew McGregor]

I was taught never to use the same finger twice if you could avoid it... so I'd do that 1 2 4 - 1 2 4 (repeat ad nauseam). But good suggestion if you're going to use the open string.

[CT DB]

Tom,
Do you start with your thumb farther down the neck for the first 1,2?

[Eli_Upright12]

Cool stuff Tom, sometimes what I do is actually use a really extended 4 finger/pivot if its only for a couple notes and it works great. I'm ending up using that style a lot in Tchaikovsky 4 which we are playing right now. because there are fast running passages with both Bb and C# and the first movement has all kinds of crazy chromaticism. It seems to be working well for me and I've been practicing it slow and staying in tune (as much as possible).

[TomGale]

Originally Posted by CT DB

Tom,
Do you start with your thumb farther down the neck for the first 1,2?

Just in the normal position. The difference is in the 1-1,2,4 being slower or blurry because of that 1-1 drag whereas in the 1,2,1,2, the 1 is actually already moving as you play the 2. You can see it if you play;
(on the G string) A, A#, B, C, C# as 4 sixteenths and a quarter note.
1,2,1,2,4 and down 4,2,1,2,1. If you lock down the 1 until you finish the 2, it defeats the whole purpose.
TG

[neilG]

I just do the 1-1 or 2-2, but I do it fast and clear enough to make the passage work. Why substitute small moves for larger ones? The 1-1 doesn't necessarily drag, it only drags because the player hasn't practiced the move enough for it NOT to. IMNSHO.

[TomGale]

Originally Posted by neilG

I just do the 1-1 or 2-2, but I do it fast and clear enough to make the passage work. Why substitute small moves for larger ones? The 1-1 doesn't necessarily drag, it only drags because the player hasn't practiced the move enough for it NOT to. IMNSHO.

Then why not do both?
TG

[neilG]

Originally Posted by TomGale

Then why not do both?
TG

Exactly. I have a question. Since you are of the 4 finger-when-possible school, why wouldn't you do a 1-2-3-4-0 sort of pattern for that chromatic scale? That'd necessitate a sort of double pivot but could work. Do you ever do that?

[TomGale]

[quote=neilG;6629641 Since you are of the 4 finger-when-possible school, [/QUOTE]

You must have mixed me up with someone else. I said its musically better to have as many techniques under your hand to meet musical goals than to limit yourself to just 1,2,4 - closed hand tech.
In my Tech Foundation Studies, Vol. 1 - the open or 4 finger tech book,
I start the tech on first finger D on the G string. There are 5 pages of studies - including pivioting in that position. Part 2 is the same but up a half step. Part 3 starts on C#, etc. etc.
I can start on 1st finger on C but thats as low as I can go in comfort. Tom Martin in England told me he can only go down to C#. Unless you have a very unusual left hand, using this technique in 1/2 or 1st position is inviting injury but I'm sure there are some players that can but would not advise it for the vast majority.
Its nice to have that technique handy but I have also played many, many concerts with only the closed hand - 1,2,4. Then again, I have cleaned up many a nasty musical passage by combining BOTH techs.
It all depends on the music.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com

[BigLowEnd]

Tom Martin is maybe a bad example to cite for "open hand" playing as he is probably as tall as Frodo Baggins,

[TomGale]

Originally Posted by BigLowEnd

Tom Martin is maybe a bad example to cite for "open hand" playing as he is probably as tall as Frodo Baggins,

True but it shows that even Frodo can use the open hand - if only from C# and up. It really helps clean up nasty passages.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com