F-hole Direction

BMason · #1 03-16-2007, 03:28 PM

I have noticed that many professional bass sections violate one of my biggest pet peeves as a musician: pointing their f-holes in careless directions. I don't know if there are certain mores about this practice, but I've always found it more practical if the entire section points their bass in the same direction. It not only looks better, but gives a more focused sound in my honest opinion. Sure I'm just ranting a bit, but isn't there a lack of practicality in being so careless (apologies to the DSO)?

Whad'ya think?

MilesC · #2 03-16-2007, 03:38 PM

I think that the bassists should do whatever works for them. I really don't mind it.

WalpoleBassMan · #3 03-16-2007, 05:40 PM

I believe that the low frequencies of the bass are non-directional so the directon of f-holes has no affect on the sound - sound resonates through floor, walls, ceiling, etc. in all directions.
I think that is why stereo sub-woofers point to the floor.

BMason · #4 03-16-2007, 06:50 PM

The instrument's range aside, isn't it more uniform to be pointed in the same direction? No other section in the orchestra can point whereverso they choose, so why does the bass section have the liberty to look sloppy? Honestly, I think it's just etiquette.

R.Hewitt · #5 03-16-2007, 07:05 PM

At 17 my "Honest opinion" didn't amount to much either.

Next thing you'll be saying that clarinet players shouldn't do that silly spiral motion with the end of their instrument.
None of them do it in unison.

Jeez

Have you ever watched a violin section?

I can see at least a good 10 degrees variation in the variety of angles the violin tops point and that's not being sarcastic.
Why? because everyone has slightly different neck lengths and shoulder angles.

Maybe my lard arse thighs are fatter than yours so I'll never get my bass at the same angle as you do.

BMason · #6 03-16-2007, 07:15 PM

Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, but I'm talking about section members actually facing different directions. I'm not even being picky. The blatant facing the near opposite direction of one's stand partner is totally and completely avoidable. But what do I know, I'm only a seventeen year-old bass player. Go figure.

theshadow2001 · #7 03-16-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalpoleBassMan

I believe that the low frequencies of the bass are non-directional so the directon of f-holes has no affect on the sound - sound resonates through floor, walls, ceiling, etc. in all directions.
I think that is why stereo sub-woofers point to the floor.

I think thats true below 100Hz or so. But the bass produces harmonics and overtones that are directional. These components are probably what the unique sound of each instrument is. It doesn't just produce fundamental notes

NWBass · #8 03-16-2007, 08:27 PM

Yes, the bass sound actually is directional. Sure, some of the vibrations and resonances will be heard no matter which way you are pointed, but for best projection, clarity, and sound quality, it is ideal to have the bridge facing the direction you want to be heard. That said, in an orchestral situation there are many factors that may prevent this. The most obvious is where the conductor decides he wants the basses to sit. Depending on how you play, you might not be able to see him and also point in the desired direction. Also maybe there's limited room on stage and you just need to sit however to fit. OR, maybe your stand partner really needs that stand right in front of him and what can you do? In the end you need to be able to the see the maestro(hopefully you want to) and your music at pretty much the same time. And then there are harpists in the way...or other bass players...

mcnaire2004 · #9 03-17-2007, 12:47 AM

I am not going to lie. I am known to do it to. But, more so in rehearsal rather than a performance. Usually half the section is facing the conductor, the other half has their bass facing the right. But, I see it more when other bassist are to stubborn to budge when the section is to close together. I personally rather everyone face front but I really don't mind.

Baird · #10 03-17-2007, 01:18 AM

Hey Brandon I totally agree with ya here...and ya I am only 18 so maybe it doesn't matter too much.
I think that if only for the sake of looking professional, the bassists should face generally in the same direction. That isn't asking much when bassists are allowed freedom to choose so many things: sit or stand, german or french, etc...
I agree that there are many possible reasons that could prohibit optimal positioning, but this should be the exception not the rule.
Let's be nice and civil here, we are bassists after all!

G-force · #11 03-17-2007, 01:56 AM

what do you say to the violinists whose F holes point the wrong way ? In a classical set up the second fiddles are in stereo with the firsts. Ya know on the edge o the stage with their f-holes ponited inwards.
I think you have a valid ponit but it is very subjective to the type of hall one is playing in, what the level of the ensemble is etc.
I have played concerts where it was totally in order to point the other way ( within reasonable limits, not alla jr high school style, that's just poor posture.).
Of course this pees me off as well but so do so many other things .

Ludwig · #12 03-20-2007, 07:55 AM

There is a problem in handling basses, they don't fit the body. Two main brenches of holding the instrument developed, the open and closed position, holding the instrument in a different angle to the body. Then there are the players using french grip and the ones using german grip with differnt angles between hand and strings. The mentioned variables and the differnt body types and sight ability of the players sum up to very few players holding the double bass identically. The same can be watched in different degrees with other instruments. I think, the differences increase with the size of the instrument.
If you check the flute players, there bodies or chairs are usually turned to different angles and the flutes and heads are dropping more or less to the side.
As long as the sound is OK, don't worry to much for the look. Large sections of stringed instruments are distributed over quite a lot of space and will always have the F holes pointing in several directions when seen from the listeners. Each player has to see the conductor and is turned to him, not to the people listening. In many halls, the spectators are very well distributed, too, maybe even behind or above the players. The only person sure of the best sound turns out to be the conductor.

BMason · #13 03-20-2007, 12:56 PM

I understand holding the bass at slightly different angles due to physical differences in the player, but it just annoys me when people face the wrong way.

**Damon Rondeau** · #14 03-20-2007, 02:40 PM

Speaking as a non-classical, non-orchestral player, I can say the only thing that bugs me is if the music bites. In fact, if there's a little variety to look at up on the stage, it makes things more interesting visually. Worst case scenario? Everyone looks exactly the same and the music is extremely dull.

jazzbassnerd · #15 03-20-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMason

I understand holding the bass at slightly different angles due to physical differences in the player, but it just annoys me when people face the wrong way.

Which way is the right way?

BMason · #16 03-20-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzbassnerd

Which way is the right way?

Surely it's not away from the audience. The most common practice is simply in the direction of the conductor, each stand in the same direction. Facing the back of the orchestra looks bad and takes away from the consistency of the section.

This is all nit-picky and insignificant when compared to the actual talent of a player, but I think it adds to a performance and a section. I'm sorry if this thread offended you in any way. If you have nothing valuable to contribute to the question, please don't waste your time (this is directed at anyone, not the quoted).