Finding a new teacher... how do you know when it's time?

bassist6 · #1 01-12-2009, 01:16 AM

Hello,

My son has been with his current bass teacher for almost 3 years. How do you know when it is time to move on? Is it a good idea to be exposed to different teachers? Should we tell his current teacher, and ask for recommendations, or just interview a few on our own? It is a very small bass community, so all the potential teachers probably know one another.

Thanks!

Eric Swanson · #2 01-12-2009, 07:34 AM

My limited experience in relationships, of all kinds, is to try to talk things over with the people involved first. A three-year relationship is a significant thing, for everyone.

Questions for consideration:
- How does your child feel about the teacher, and vice-versa?

- What does your son want to learn (or you want him to learn) that he isn't learning? What isn't working, in your, and your child's opinion?

- What other resources are available (music camps, ensembles, schools, etc.) that could be supplementary? Some students have a bass teacher, an ensemble coach, a vocal teacher, a piano teacher, theory classes on the side, etc. So, there may be ways to broaden the experience while maintaining continuity with the current instructor, if the relationship works well.

- What is your child's true interest level? How much does he practice, play, and listen? Is his involvement voluntary is this something imposed on him? What musical projects/tunes/etc. does he bring to the table on his own? What types of music, currently, is he interested in? Is any perceived lack of growth possibly stemming from your son's own ambivalence, to any degree?

My experience is that really good teachers are always busy/popular and will have their students' interests at heart; if they lose one student they will find another. Many teachers feel honored/proud to "send someone on" to bigger things, if the student has already learned what the first teacher has to offer.

You are in a working relationship with this guide already; so, perhaps, use that relationship, first; check on their view. Then, they may be able to help you with a transition, if you all decide that its time for change.

So much of it is about "fit;" not competence or skill. How the student/teacher feel about each other has a lot to do with how seriously they take each other, in my experience. I would talk about it in those terms; not, "I think that you aren't a good teacher and I am considering firing you," but, "I am wondering about fit and interested to hear your thoughts." Etc., etc.

On a personal note, I was one of those lukewarm 'cello students that teachers dread, as a young kid. Memorized the music at the lesson, played it back a week later, would hardly touch it in between. I just wasn't in to it, even though I had some good teachers, a nice instrument, and decent talent.

When I got into the bass, another instrument, another time, I couldn't dive in deeply enough; in both cases, it had as much to do with my own youthful path as with my teachers' efforts and/or skill.

Finally, where are you? If you fill out your profile and give us a location, folks here may be able to provide additional teaching resources.

bassist6 · #3 01-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Thank you for your comments! We live in north San Diego county. My son is playing pieces that are technically advanced (he is currently working on the Dittersdorf concerto, 75% finished with the Simandl book, some jazz, working on Capuzzi for a second time to prepare for a solo recital) but his technique is terrible - bowing, intonation - just general "finesse" and sound if you know what I mean -- it may be his age (only 9) but I don't know enough to know - I am thinking that maybe another teacher's perspective might help. We love his teacher but he is very "casual" - and maybe my son needs someone a little "tougher" to work on his technique? We don't want him developing bad habits that he cannot fix later. We are attending the Richard Davis conference in March, so that may be a good way to meet some other teachers of young students, and garner ideas. My son also needs to be cajoled into practicing (he practices 30-45 minutes per day), although he knows he is talented and would never consider giving up playing. He plays the piano as well, also at a high level (certificate of merit level 5, if anyone else is familiar with that California program) for his age. If we decide to interview some other teachers, to see if there is a good fit, does anyone have any recommendations for a student like this? Here is a link to a couple of old videos (filmed maybe 6 months ago, he plays better now): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hL0DClu6i0 , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x64F1...eature=related,

John Perrin · #4 01-12-2009, 11:50 AM

Really I think his current teacher is likely to be able to help with things like intonation and technique as much as anybody else.

You might just mention to the teacher that you think it might be time to introduce the kid to slower pieces that will help develop his ear.

Also, my teachers have always had me practice playing a song in perfect intonation first, and then work it up to speed little by little. Maybe just encourage your son to spend more time playing slowly and in tune when he practices instead of just plowing headlong into it.

At his age, I wouldn't really worry about it too much though. Playing in tune requires a lot of consistency and coordination, and since he's still growing it may be a little unrealistic to expect him to get it right any time soon.

Dbassmon · #5 01-12-2009, 12:06 PM

It's wonderful that your son started playing bass at this age. It seems as though he really enjoys what he is doing from what I see on the Youtube selections.

Here is my concern; Hand position and technique are really not good. He is attempting to learn and play pieces that are of an intermediate level and his technique is all wrong. STOP! All he is doing is creating bad habits that will be difficult to break down the road.

If it were my son, I would rather see an emphasis on playing with good technique, good tone and good intonation. The Simandl book is all about that. If he is 75% through that book and playing with bunched up left hand fingers and his elbow pointing downward with very bad intonation, then it's time to slow down and back up, pay attention to the fundamentals. Correctly learning those fundamentals will serve him throughout his musical life. There is a lot more to those etudes than just the notes. He seems to have missed all of that. That begs the question "what is the teacher teaching?" It's not a race to see how fast you can get through the book, but rather learning the essence of the bass by mastering each étude before moving on.

Just one mans opinion... of course.

bassist6 · #6 01-12-2009, 12:30 PM

Thank you Dbassmon! Okay, you think he should STOP... but where to go from here? Should we discuss these concerns with his teacher... and/or interview some other teachers to gain some perspective?

Dbassmon · #7 01-12-2009, 12:36 PM

My feeling is that the teacher should be the master. I don't think you should have to tell him to teach proper technique.

Living in or around San Diego, there should not be a shortage of qualified teachers. Perhaps call a University or Conservatory in your area and speak to the Professor of Bass Studies. He can probably hook you up with a gifted performance or education major that will get your son moving in all the right directions.

Hope that helps.
Regards,
Jeff aka Dbassmon

Eli_Upright12 · #8 01-12-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist6

We are attending the Richard Davis conference in March, so that may be a good way to meet some other teachers of young students, and garner ideas. My son also needs to be cajoled into practicing (he practices 30-45 minutes per day), [/url],

Right on man, I'll be at the conference and all the teachers are amazing. Try to talk to Inez Wyrick and see if you guys can do a private lesson or with Diana Gannett, David Murray or Peter Dominguez. The wealth of knowledge you can gain even just from one lesson with a person is great. Find there emails at there respective schools explain your situation and I'm sure they would be more than glad to do a lesson. I was able to do lessons with them last year and it was great to be able to get feed back and also encouragement.

bassist6 · #9 01-12-2009, 02:14 PM

Great idea, Eli! Thank you. Maybe I will hold tight until I can get some feedback from some of the teachers at the conference. Who do you think would be the best choice?

bassist6 · #10 01-12-2009, 02:16 PM

Dbassmon, my son's teacher is a professional bassist who has played in symphonies, etc. He is more than qualified to teach my son... that is not the issue... I was just thinking it may be time for a change, and maybe someone else could help work on some of his technique issues by using a different approach.

Dbassmon · #11 01-12-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist6

Dbassmon, my son's teacher is a professional bassist who has played in symphonies, etc. He is more than qualified to teach my son... that is not the issue... I was just thinking it may be time for a change, and maybe someone else could help work on some of his technique issues by using a different approach.

I am sure he is a great player. My priorities are different than his apparently... Good and sound technique is the most important thing a beginning student should be studying....until one can play études with proper technique, with good tone and intonation, one should not be moving on to intermediate material....just another point of view. I am fairly certain any great teacher you hook up with at this conference or anywhere else is going to stress fundamentally sound technique. I assume you posted this question because you want other opinions. If it helps... great, if not, disregard. Good luck.

Eli_Upright12 · #12 01-12-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist6

Great idea, Eli! Thank you. Maybe I will hold tight until I can get some feedback from some of the teachers at the conference. Who do you think would be the best choice?

Inez Wyrick, She has a history of working with bassists as young as three. Also I forgot Virginia Dixon, who pioneered the Suzuki Bass method, which is also great with young players. Those other three professors I mentioned teacher mostly upper high school level to professional players, but I thought it would maybe good for your son, (and even more for you as a parent) to see what a really great teacher is like. And those people have seen thousands of player and taught countless great students, so the have so much to offer.

bassist6 · #13 01-12-2009, 04:01 PM

Thank, you, Eli. I sent an email to Inez Wyrick to request a private lesson at the conference.

Dbassmon, I appreciate your candor. Since we don't play music, it is difficult for us parents to know what is "sound technique," especially given his age, and how, and what, a young child should be taught. That is of course why I posted here.

Phil Smith · #14 01-12-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist6

Hello,

My son has been with his current bass teacher for almost 3 years. How do you know when it is time to move on? Is it a good idea to be exposed to different teachers? Should we tell his current teacher, and ask for recommendations, or just interview a few on our own? It is a very small bass community, so all the potential teachers probably know one another.

Thanks!

It takes a long time to play well and it's only been 6 months since the last thread you started asking for advice for your son and you're getting pretty much the same responses.

Any advice? See video of 8 year old bassist...

John Perrin · #15 01-13-2009, 10:05 AM

Inez is good people. I was lucky enough to have a weeks worth of lessons with her every year starting the summer after 6th grade up through 9th grade or so. Wouldn't have traded that for anything.

Eli_Upright12 · #16 01-13-2009, 04:23 PM

I think that the Bass Conference is a great learning experience because its kind of like you have 20 different teachers with different ideas throwing all of them at once at you. When an idea fits with you it will stick with you (this applies to student and parent). I know that last year in two days I learned so much. I was amazed how much you could pick up from players in two days. Also you get a huge amount of talent in one place, seeing amazing players can give you as a parent an idea of what sounds good. For the student you can see what inspired practice can do for a musician.

MDEbass · #17 01-13-2009, 05:16 PM

Wow...looking at your youtube videos of your son. He's WAY advanced for his age level - most kids aren't even playing at his age. But....Whichever teacher you get next should definately focus more on the fundamentals...technique, intonation, rhythm (as some have said in previous posts). I can't give much advice on finding a teacher, but....once you try out another teacher make sure your son likes him so he stays motivated enough to keep playing and working hard. Especially with someone with so much talent at his young age, you should make sure you have a teacher who is helping you son to reach his highest potential as a bassist. good luck

also...his current teacher having him work on dittersdorf already!? that is typically an advanced high shool or definately a college level solo. Don't get me wrong - your son is extrememly talented, but i don't think it is your or your son's best interest to have him play such advanced music that is not appropriate for his playing level.

Stan Haskins · #18 01-13-2009, 06:13 PM

+1 for speaking with either Inez or Virginia (or both). They're both pros at teaching young bassists.

bassist6 · #19 01-13-2009, 11:27 PM

MDEbass, my son reads music well (he plays piano) and has perfect pitch, which is possibly why he can play the more advanced pieces, albeit not with any "finesse." I think his teacher has focused more on challenging him than with perfecting his technique with easier pieces...

Stan, I will be interested to see if Inez and others feel this is an methodology we should continue, or if they think we should step back. I will post again after the conference and let you know what advice I received. Thank you!

MDEbass · #20 01-14-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist6

I think his teacher has focused more on challenging him than with perfecting his technique with easier pieces...

It's good that the teacher is being sure to challenge him which is great, but the fundamentals and basics, such as technique, MUST be in good shape before the challenging music. It will be increasingly difficult for your son to play these challenging solos without the necessary technique.