French Bow Grip Technique

[dubul.bass]

Long ago, I used to play with this technique:
* my right hand tilted a bit towards the tip of the bow
* all three rows of knuckles bent about evenly
* such that my hand sat above the bow (more like a cello grip I guess)
* my thumb faced up and rested in the nook where the edge of the frog meets the stick

Then my teacher at the time had me switch to a new grip in which:
* the right hand looks like an L, bent only at the second row of knuckles
* the pad of the thumb faces away from the tip
* the tumb rests in the curve of the frog
* there is basically a straight line from the elbow to the second row of knuckles

I moved to a new town (with no reputable french bow teacher) and never had the help of that teacher to perfect the technique, and as a result, I've been playing a long time (non-professionally) with a bow grip that's very tense with very little finger movement.

Is my old technique acceptible? (there's less tension)? Any idea what I could do to improve the new technique?

[bassdoubler]

ok I had a horrible bow grip much like your first technique because I was shown how to hold it when I was 12 by a violin teacher.

When I auditioned at Juilliard, Peabody, NYU, SUNY Purchase, and UMiami, each teacher told me they would make me change my bow grip. I ended up going to NYU and my teacher took almost 3 years changing my bow grip to his, which is essentially the late, great Homer Mensch's bow girp. I'm really not even sure I ever got it completely because my hands were so much bigger than his, but I played louder, clearer and stronger than anyone in that bass section (I was Principal for all three years that I studied there) and I NEVER felt any pain since my right hand became the most relaxed part of my body.

I hold the stick in my first knuckle ridge (closest to your finger tips), keep my thumb bent inside the joint of the frog to the stick and tilt my wrist forward so your hand is almost coming over the bow. The most important part is not forcing or pushing the bow. If your grip is right, will minimal power the bow will produce a HUGE sound with it's own weight and power based on the physics of your body and the arc of your arm. This is obviously something someone would have to show you as it's a little difficult to explain online. Basically you just let go and completely relax your right hand using physics to hold the bow up. It's insanely difficult to do even being shown and it took me 3 years until I realized what my teacher was talking about and then I left school and quit playing upright for other rasons. This technique really makes you realize that your bow hand is really more important than your left hand and you start to treat the bow like a paintbrush. This means no more pressure or inner hand pain because you're barely squeezing the stick and it's only being held up by the strings beneath it....pretty trippy stuff now that I really think about it....good luck bro

[thedbassist]

Pick up a copy of Art of the Bow, it's by Francois Rabbath(french virtuoso). Although it's $80, the dvd is 4 hours long and you will use it for a long time.

Also, please fill out your profile information so we can know if there are any french bow teachers around that you might not have heard.

[professorslinky]

The only proper french bow technique is to throw that POS away and play the German bow.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by professorslinky

The only proper french bow technique is to throw that POS away and play the German bow.

Funny, cause "Satory" made French Bows. And it's spelled "SARTORY".

[Eric Swanson]

You guys .

[MDEbass]

yeah...German is waayy easier to learn. I play both German and French, and I think it useful to be able to play both well...(you never know about some situation in the future that might come up where you might need to borrow a bow that might be the opposite kind that you use). Some things are easier about German, and some things are easier on French. I think drawing the bow on German is easier and its easier for me to put more weight from my shoulder and arm into it, but I think French is easier for string crossing.

[Russell Bergum]

Originally Posted by thedbassist

Pick up a copy of Art of the Bow, it's by Francois Rabbath(french virtuoso). Although it's $80, the dvd is 4 hours long and you will use it for a long time.

+1

I just picked this up and it is definitely worth it. Rabbath's love of music and the bass really shines through, along with great bow instruction.

[David Potts]

I have just put a lot of stuff about bow hold and reasons why on a current "Not enough bow" Joel Kelsey thread. See what you think, dubul bass.

DP

[Beast]

Could somebody please tell me as to how to prevent your thumb from hurting with the "better" grip? I love the tone and control I get from it, but there's so much pressure on my thumb that it hurts too much to play any longer than 15 minutes.

[thedbassist]

Originally Posted by Beast

Could somebody please tell me as to how to prevent your thumb from hurting with the "better" grip? I love the tone and control I get from it, but there's so much pressure on my thumb that it hurts too much to play any longer than 15 minutes.

First of all, get a bow rubber-I get mine from George Vance at http://www.slavapub.net/Other-Rubber_Tubing.html . I feel that this gives me a very secure place for my thumb to be and you should also grow out your thumbnail so you can more easily hold the bow.

Also, do you have a teacher? Where are you learning your bow hold from? Talkbass?

[¡bassballbill!]

Originally Posted by Beast

Could somebody please tell me as to how to prevent your thumb from hurting with the "better" grip? I love the tone and control I get from it, but there's so much pressure on my thumb that it hurts too much to play any longer than 15 minutes.

dont squeeze. i think john clayton puts it best: hold it like you would a baby bird (in terms of strength, not hand shape). firm enough to keep it from flying away, soft enough to not hurt it.

[Don Higdon]

There's a mental component working at the unconscious level. It starts when we say French bow grip rather than French bow hold. Seems inconsequential, but it isn't.
My teacher (Linda McKnight of Manhattan School of Music) said she should always be able to take the bow out of my hand.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

My teacher (Linda McKnight of Manhattan School of Music) said she should always be able to take the bow out of my hand.

Yeah, Dono. And knowing you and your particular physical obsessions, the bow wasn't the ONLY thing Linda should always be able to take outta' yer hand.

[frichter]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Yeah, Dono. And knowing you and your particular physical obsessions, the bow wasn't the ONLY thing Linda should always be able to take outta' yer hand.

Its a high fly ball to center . . . back . . . back . . . HOME RUN!!!

[DallasStrings]

Yep, I've gotta jump on the bandwagon here and hijack this thread with another pitch for German Bow.

I'll be playing long after you frenchies are forced to retire from carpal tunnel syndrome..

[jallenbass]

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

Yep, I've gotta jump on the bandwagon here and hijack this thread with another pitch for German Bow.

I'll be playing long after you frenchies are forced to retire from carpal tunnel syndrome..

I love sweeping generalizations! They bring so much to the conversation!

[FrostyBubba3455]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

I love sweeping generalizations! They bring so much to the conversation!

wow, what an ironic post!!

[jallenbass]

Huh?

[FrostyBubba3455]

you said that someones post brought nothing to the conversation in a post that brought nothing to the conversaition.