French bow - how to get those lower strings shakin'

[Sean Ormiston]

Hey all, I'm a 3 month old double bassist now, soon to get a new teacher when funds allow. Been teaching myself, putting a lotta hours into the simandl method book and just getting to know the instrument.

One thing has been consistently bugging me: I've managed to acquire a lighter and more pliable grip on my french bow, which took a lot of self-monitoring and experimentation. Makes the sound much more open. And I can bow the open A and E strings in that same way, loose arm and gravity giving the weight. But when I fret notes on the A and E string, it becomes drastically harder to get it vibrating. I need to employ pressure and even a bit of brute strength it seems, sometimes, to get the full tone. Is this natural? I've been told that your arm weight will provide everything, but that just doesn't seem to cut it when I'm playing (most particularly) a low G in half position.
I use Pops Rosin, which I believe is a pretty solid rosin in terms of giving the hair grip.

The result can be a pretty sore thumb, as well as very un-fluid playing.

I'm sure most of you will say it's hard to help without being there in person, seeing my bass and my bow (UB Workshop bow) and all, but perhaps you've got some advice for me anyhow. Or an exercise to try and negotiate this kind of thing?

Thanks.

[JazzDude]

I'd take a look at your left hand technique, since the open strings are working well. Those notes require a good amount of pressure. Others can better explain the proper hand position and techniques to accomplish this.

You can also check this thread for more bowing advice.

[mcnaire2004]

Yea, it sounds like a left hand thing (though it may not seem like it). When you get a teacher he will be able to tell you better than we ever can. But, I'd focus on keeping your fingers curved and put focused pressure on your on the string when fingering the notes. Then, split your focus and keep your bow hand relaxed to pull on the string.

[sibass89]

You need to hang the weight of your left hand the same way as your right hand. The hardest positions to play in by far is half position and the positions on the A and E strings. Make sure that the pad of your finger is making contact with the string, that your thumb is resting (not squeezing) on the back of the neck (not on the side) and then use the same concept of letting gravity apply weight for your bow arm with hanging your left arm and you will be able to hold the string down better and produce a clearer sound.

[fcleff]

Wow! You must be pretty big. When my son was 3 months old he couldn't even walk. Maybe you should wait until you are at the age of 5 and get an 1/8 size bass.

Seriously though, I agree that this is a left hand strength issue. Follow the advice given and you should be able to work it up soon. Don't let your fingers collapse in the half position. Keep them curved and press down with the finger.

[Sean Ormiston]

Your advice has definitely put me on the right track, I think, as well as cleared up some misconceptions I had about the left hand.
Particularly I realized I was trying a lot of my strength by squeezing the neck, which could be awfully hard on the left thumb.

Now I keep my wrist straight and let my arms weight do the work, and the curvature of my fingers deliver that work. It's a new feeling, like I'm aware of exactly how much mass is hanging off my shoulder.

You may not be face to face teachers...but you'll do in a pinch!

Thanks.

-Sean

[Joe Ergle]

An instructor would show you this easier, but basically focus more on pulling backwards with your entire left arm instead of just squeezing the notes out with your hand. Keep your elbow up, and use your bicep. Are you playing with the pad of your left thumb on the back of the neck, or the tip? As Sir Isaac Newton demonstrated, strength comes with arches. Playing with the tip of your thumb on the back of the neck with your fingers bent creates a full arch.
I sound too much like my teacher.

[mahlerbass]

If there are "specific" notes that you have marked trouble with, especially compared to other notes on the same string, you might need to have the fingerboard re-planed. Try pressing down a note, and pluck the sting on both sides. If you hear a "buzz", then I would recommend a trip to a luthier. Also, you could try messing with the bridge adjusters a wee bit if you think it could relate to string height.

[dchan]

I myself used an UB workshop bow before, and despite its praises, it has its limitations. (after all, it's only $99, right?)

Anyway, I currently use a pernambuco bow, while my UB bow is in storage. I recently decided to bring out my UB bow to try again. I have improved my technique since I last used this bow, so I sounded a lot better than I did before with this bow.

I think credit for the improved technique should go to the pernambuco bow and the fact that I now use a stool when playing (takes the weight of instrument off your hands, and also puts the f-holes and general sound closer to your ears: easier to hear yourself playing).

Back to the topic at hand. The UB bow was a pretty nice bow for what it cost, but one thing that it could not do was get a powerful sound from the A and E strings. My pernambuco bow, however, could get those lower notes shaking like no bow that I have tried before.

To be fair, I haven't tried out many bows, and the UB bow was about 10 grams lighter. But the fact is, that a better bow and better technique will help out in the lower end immensely.


P.S. If you ever do decide to get a new bow, always try out the bow you are buying.

[Sean Ormiston]

Originally Posted by mahlerbass

If there are "specific" notes that you have marked trouble with, especially compared to other notes on the same string, you might need to have the fingerboard re-planed. Try pressing down a note, and pluck the sting on both sides. If you hear a "buzz", then I would recommend a trip to a luthier. Also, you could try messing with the bridge adjusters a wee bit if you think it could relate to string height.

The low G in half position, as I mentioned, was particularly tricky, but I'm sure that's a left hand thing. It's on the lowest string, in the most widely spaced position, with the 4th finger.

I tried your test and the results are clean. I expected as much. I've only had this bass for three months, got it from an extremely reputable shop (David Gage's in NYC), and my teacher from back when I got it gave it a thorough going over.

I've got bridge adjusters...but how could it relate to string height?

[mahlerbass]

If your fingerboard is fine, then just forget about what I said. It seems to me that your bass is just fine, especially considering where you bought it. Keep practicing, when your low G prompts a call from your neighbors, then you know your in business.