How to wean myself off of looking at my hand? (DB thread in orchestral forum)

jillofallbasses · #1 01-12-2011, 10:39 PM

Argh! It's such a bad crutch while playing, I know.

I think maybe it's because I switched from violin where my fingers were always in my peripheral vision and it's still freaking me out that I can't see what I'm doing. But that was like 2.5 years ago so I really shouldn't blame it on that! I'm principal in my orchestra and I still see myself looking down in performance videos... Eep! how embarrassing! D:

Anyways... Past about second position I feel really uncomfortable if I don't look down at my left hand, particularly when playing alone. In orchestra, if we're reading something super fast I just kind of throw my hand up there (probably playing the run half wrong) because I'd rather fake a passage than get lost and mess up the rest of the piece. But playing scales I have memorized I always end up looking at my hands, not necessarily for precise intonation but more of because I don't know (or at least I'm afraid I don't know) where the positions are.

Also, when working on a solo, I tend to memorize it as I'm working on it so I can look solely at my left hand without glancing at the music for reference. As a result, I memorize solo music very quickly, but I'm afraid later on in my career this will prove to be a problem. :/ Is this okay or is it just as bad as when I look at my hand in an orchestral situation? I don't want to seem introverted as a performer.

Any insight and/or suggestions for improvement would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance.

-IZ

MikeBass · #2 01-12-2011, 10:41 PM

Tattoo a picture of Oprah necked on it.....that should work I think...

David Potts · #3 01-13-2011, 02:18 AM

Some simple steps are worth trying

(1) Practice scales and arpeggios in the dark. Cut your eyes out of the input to your brain. I'd go so far as to also draw your blinds/curtains and blindfold yourself then keep your eyes shut. About 80% of brain traffic is through your eyes. When they are shut down your other senses are heightened.

(2) Assuming that you sit/stand the same way each time you play you call on three basics to find notes and move between them, (a) Set Position to Set Position (each position/note has a three dimensional setting, a "place in space" that you reach for,
(b) the distance between notes/positions can be measured by keeping thumb and fingers in contact with the back of the neck and strings, like a tape measure, (c) work on pre-hearing the note you are shifting to or reaching for. You might not be able to sing it but the moment it sounds you are able to correct it if out.

It is easy to show that your muscles have a memory that you can trust. Sound A on the G string (1st finger, 1st Position). Tune the 5th above open D string. Shut your eyes and think about how the setting of your hand feels. Drop your hand by your side then, with your eyes shut, put your hand back there and retune the A. Repeat this, this time scratching the back of your head before reaching for the A. After several repeats you can confidently reach for that note.

Repeat the process to find D octave confidently on the G string with your pinkie (think "tuning position"). Next step is to shift accurately from A (1st position) to D (3rd position) being aware of the three basic tools.

Then challenge yourself to reach confidently for any chosen note with any chosen finger, correcting yourself, until you can do so accurately a number of times. Each time you pick up the bass do some note finding, always correcting yourself before going on.

Gary Karr's "vomit exercises will help build confidence and familiarity.

Have you ever playing in a pit orchestra where your music is lit by a sconce and your plus bass are almost in darkness. This is agood test of courage. I know because I've been where you are.

Cheers.....

Dp

Floyd Eye · #4 01-13-2011, 07:51 AM

Practice in the dark.

bassman1489 · #5 01-13-2011, 10:37 AM

I have found that practicing in front of a mirror keeps my eyes focused on my bow more than my left hand. Also, practicing with music (even if you have it memorized) helps me to think more musically and less technically, and keeps me from looking down.

Cory Palmer · #6 01-13-2011, 11:38 AM

Try looking at a fixed spot while you're practicing. I like David's suggestion of practicing with your eyes closed but I'm concerned that when you open your eyes you might go back to looking at your left hand. Try practicing basic technique stuff like scales slowly at first then move on to music all while keeping your eyes on a fixed point. It would also help to try this while performing for people. When you are under pressure is when you are most likely to revert to old habits that you thought were borken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Potts

It is easy to show that your muscles have a memory that you can trust. Sound A on the G string (1st finger, 1st Position). Tune the 5th above open D string. Shut your eyes and think about how the setting of your hand feels. Drop your hand by your side then, with your eyes shut, put your hand back there and retune the A. Repeat this, this time scratching the back of your head before reaching for the A. After several repeats you can confidently reach for that note.

I really like this idea.

JohnStamos · #7 01-13-2011, 07:25 PM

I don't think looking at a fixed spot or closing your eyes will do anything beneficial to you.

Cory Palmer · #8 01-13-2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnStamos

I don't think looking at a fixed spot or closing your eyes will do anything beneficial to you.

Why not?

DC Bass · #9 01-13-2011, 08:28 PM

I am inclined to agree with the advise of focusing on a fixed spot.

Perhaps try alternating your focal point between your stand and where you would see the conductor.

I place my stand so I can still see the stick in my peripheral vision while reading...top left corner of the stand to be precise.

YMMV

Good Luck,

Joe

jillofallbasses · #10 01-13-2011, 10:32 PM

Thank you all for all of your suggestions! I especially appreciated you in-depth help there, David, and your comment about playing in pit orchestra (which I did once, but it was pretty well-lit) reminded me of a time when we blacked out the entire concert hall for a piece... I freaked out and was super worried I wouldn't be able to play in tune!

John, I'd like to know why you think these two methods will not help - different points of views are always welcomed so long as they are backed up with reasoning! Alternatively, what would you suggest? Or am I a lost cause? :P

Andrew McGregor · #11 01-13-2011, 11:15 PM

Do a whole lot of sight reading, trying to make the best job of the tunes that you can. In orchestra, watch the conductor and other players every chance you get.

Any habit takes at least six weeks to change, so don't be in too much of a hurry. Work at it whenever you notice.

Alex Scott · #12 01-19-2011, 09:50 PM

stop looking at it

bejoyous · #13 01-20-2011, 12:13 AM

A good place to focus your eyes is on a piece you have chosen to sight read on your music stand. It could be a piece, an orchestral work or a study.

Since it is hard to make a room completely dark, I used a sleeping mask. I found mine while walking through an airport. I'm not sure where else they are available. You could probably rig one up with a folded facecloth and a few elastics though.

Doing this will train the muscles in your arm to stop at the right spot with your ears telling you you are in tune rather than train your finger to line up with a certain dot on the neck with your eyes confirming it.

btownbass · #14 02-03-2011, 09:59 PM

I completely agree with using any of the above recommendations for improving familiarity with the instrument. However, I don't understand the need to wean yourself from looking at the fingerboard during performance. Even Edgar Meyer uses marks on his fingerboard and frequently looks down while playing difficult passages. I'd recommend just memorizing the 2 or 3 per concert passages that go beyond 2nd position - there just aren't that many high passages in normal bass playing. I wouldn't worry too much about whether you're looking at your fingerboard during a performance. Your audience would probably rather hear you play in tune than watch you looking at a conductor.

Anonymatt · #15 02-03-2011, 11:27 PM

The sleeping mask is hilarious. That's like some kung fu training or something!

I stopped looking at the bass when I started DB a few months ago. (I still look at my fretless electric some.) I don't have a problem sneaking peeks at the bass, but my intonation is still super sloppy a lot of the time.

Play in the dark. I play in the dark and still keep my eyes shut. Keep playing open strings as a reference. When I get in the zone with it, especially if I'm improvising or playing something by ear, it's a very sensual experience.

Don't compare today's practice with yesterday's! Just keep at it! Even if sometimes you feel like you're getting worse, hey, maybe your ear's just getting ahead of the physical aspects of playing. From what I see written on here and observe on record, the struggle for great intonation just goes and goes...

iiipopes · #16 02-04-2011, 12:28 AM

I remember in little-league basketball the coach fitting blinders under our eyes to break us of looking at the ball when dribbling. Similar thing. In addition to all the recommendations as to where to, or not to look, what goes with that is to take bits of what your playing one by one, look at them the first time to make sure you're putting your hand in the right spot, then looking at the music or such and practice the phrase, repeating it slowly without looking until you are sure of where your left hand is going, constantly adjusting by ear until it becomes automatic.

Another thing that helps: I was a tad late to my last band rehearsal, and the guys were starting to read down a new chart by the time I got myself together. All I could do was jump in. Sightreading under pressure is great way to break yourself of looking at your left hand.

John_Madere · #17 02-04-2011, 12:42 AM

I used to practice in front of a mirror so much that I couldn't play when I wasn't in front of a mirror. I eventually got over that. It stopped me from looking at my hands though.

Don Higdon · #18 02-06-2011, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Potts

Some simple steps are worth trying

(1) Practice scales and arpeggios in the dark. Cut your eyes out of the input to your brain. I'd go so far as to also draw your blinds/curtains and blindfold yourself then keep your eyes shut. About 80% of brain traffic is through your eyes. When they are shut down your other senses are heightened.
...Dp

+1
This does absolute wonders for your intonation, and it's so simple to do.

Plays_For_Dog · #19 02-06-2011, 05:05 AM

I would turn the lights off and play in the dark. Many people have done this and recommend it to you. Must work....

ILIA · #20 02-06-2011, 01:01 PM

One new etude a week cures a lot of things including the problem you're talking about. Playing in the dark? If you did this, how are you supposed to read the music? Keep your eyes on the music and practice this by playing a new etude each week. Make sure the etudes do not give you rests which would allow you time to sneak a look at your fingerboard. Orchestra parts give you rests to look at your music, that's why you can't wean yourself with just the orchestra parts.

Of course, you could just decide to not look at the fingerboard. But that would take discipline wouldn't it? Come to think of it, this one etude a week thing takes discipline, too.