Orchestral Thumb Position- Target Practice?

kurkomat · #1 11-28-2008, 04:57 PM

Echoing a question I posed on the Jazz technique forum as I'm interested to see if any classical folks have input... do any of you have advice for beginning a phrase that is in thumb position? E.g.- let's say you want to play a piece starting on the high C on the G string (we're in thumb position here.) How do you go about finding that C? I've seen guys pluck around and find the octave harmonic prior to a piece beginning but I don't see this as a practical (or frankly professional) way of nailing high notes after a piece has started. Ideally I want to be able to initiate the note right on. Any tips?
FYI, yes, I have asked my teacher and unfortunately his answer was not as helpful as I'd like. I've worked through Simandl and Petracchi's Thumb position book.... these contain really good exercises that:

1. get you in and out of thumb position by using approach notes
2. increase dexterity while in thumb position

But I can't find any material on how to hit the target note cold (i.e. without walking up into it.) Any suggestions? I'm open to any exercises / methods / materials folks have found that help with this. Thanks!

thedbassist · #2 11-28-2008, 05:19 PM

Experiment with finding the octave harmonic with your thumb by letting your arm lie on the shoulder of the bass. Once you feel comfortable that you can find the g harmonic by letting your arm lie on the shoulder on the bass in a certain position you will be able to find the c.

Also, you can see if there are any inconistencies in the wood of your fingerboard and use those as a guide to where the c is.

Andrew McGregor · #3 11-28-2008, 10:08 PM

Learn to find the harmonics, and practice lots of arppegios (or Bach, or Simandl exercises up the octave...) up there so you can feel the intervals.

LM Bass · #4 11-28-2008, 11:00 PM

You're probably already hip to this idea, but I feel it needs posting for any inexperienced players-

You always want to "hear" the note first. Then you move your hand to the spot where the pitch matches.

Okay, now that I've said that, I've seen good players like Joel Quarrington (I meant "amazing" not just good!) "test" a high note before an entrance by pressing it just hard enough to get a quiet pitch. This works for me, but of course I have to have the "expectation of pitch" ahead of time, in my ear.

mcnaire2004 · #5 11-29-2008, 03:58 AM

Practice scales all day. That is the easiest way. Practice things that involve thumb position. I don't know what you mean by "the high C", but I am guessing you mean middle C, one octave above the first C on the g string. Scales, Scales, Scales.

kurkomat · #6 11-29-2008, 08:20 PM

helpful info... thanks all.

Andrew McGregor · #7 11-29-2008, 08:50 PM

But not only scales... the arpeggios of any and all chords you can think of are important too... and do them with missing notes; scale intonation isn't very difficult, wild leaps are. Sure you should be able to play scales, but music isn't made of them, especially not bass music.

Big_Fat_Dynamo · #8 11-30-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedbassist

Experiment with finding the octave harmonic with your thumb by letting your arm lie on the shoulder of the bass. Once you feel comfortable that you can find the g harmonic by letting your arm lie on the shoulder on the bass in a certain position you will be able to find the c.

I disagree with this method, I would highly recomend Never letting your arm rest on the bass. If you are playing with your arm resting on the bass then you loose all the weight from your shoulder and arm on the string and you have to then start pushing with your fingers which will = bad tone.

MR PC · #9 11-30-2008, 04:49 PM

Never say never.......maybe he only leaves it there for a millisecond, just to get a perspective on his body in the frame of the fingerboard. Maybe he isn't putting any weight on the bass at all, leaving his arm free.

He said EXPERIMENT.

MR PC · #10 11-30-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LM Bass

Y

You always want to "hear" the note first. Then you move your hand to the spot where the pitch matches.

Yes, yes, yes! And read what Pablo Casals had to say if you get a chance as well.

Big_Fat_Dynamo · #11 11-30-2008, 05:40 PM

imo having to rely on something like that to find a note would waste time, in the end you just have to be able to feel the distance to jump up into. Another good way to train your fingers for thumb position is to play every 2 or three octave scale starting at the top note and coming down, this way you have to repeat the top octave and you will be playing it more.

MR PC · #12 11-30-2008, 06:33 PM

Mr. Dynamo, your profile makes it look like the electric bass guitar is your focus.

Did your father give you the scale workout you describe, "the terrible 20"?

thedbassist · #13 11-30-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PC

Never say never.......maybe he only leaves it there for a millisecond, just to get a perspective on his body in the frame of the fingerboard. Maybe he isn't putting any weight on the bass at all, leaving his arm free.

He said EXPERIMENT.

MR PC, you're right. I only meant that when I lie my arm down on a certain point of the shoulder my thumb hits the octave harmonic-once I've done that I bring my arm up-. I never play with my arm resting on the shoulder.