PRACTICING

[G-force]

Hey everyone ,

I'm very interested in hearing how we all practice.

Seems I never really was taught how. At least straight forward. I kind of learned by osmosis and making many of the same mistakes over and over. In my education it was mostly, "do this cause I do this" sort of teaching. It worked for a long while and I have gone on to become professional so something was right. But still I am wondering what others do and their approaches.

I'll add some of my own ideas as we get into this.

Thanks for participation.

Glenn!!

[steve66]

Check out Todd Johnson's post on practicing in the Bass Forums ask a pro. Very good information.

THIS IS THE PRACTICING DOCUMENT THREAD NOW!!!

[G-force]

Thanks for the reference but I was thining more of specific double bass with the bow kind of practicing.

Though I must say Mr Johnsons has some very good points.

G

[bassdogEmer]

Hi,
my routine consists of a scale group called the 'mighty twenty' major and minor scales three octaves up and down the bass. I do that with two different bowings. then I run the etudes in the back end of the simandle book - specifically (in my addition) Part IV on page 73. I also run a few etudes in the seperate book - simandle 30 etudes. I stretch my hands every 15 minutes and this whole routine takes me about 45 minutes to an hour. Then for Jazz I practice putting standards I know into different keys and playing the melodies in different keys..hope this helps.

[Stan Haskins]

First of all, I have limited time every day. MOre than two hours a day is virtually impossible for me, due to child care and work. So, making the most of my practice time, and doing it every day, is very important to me.

Here's how I practice now:

I have one main topic that I'm working on in terms of tone production/technique, and I try to stick with it for a long stretch of time. For me right now, that is preserving the contact with the bow into the string, using every point of the bow, with varying amounts of speed and pressure, across the entire range of the instrument. So I use:

-Every day, I make sure to drill some Sevcik variations (just the ones on one string) - I use the Reinke edition - this seems to be a good tool for making this concept "automatic", so the feel and sound of constant contact is carried over to the next etudes;

-Etudes - I try to make sure to always be working on an etude which is just at my level, but still challenging. I don't skip around alot, but try to apply that "connected" sound to whatever etude I'm working on. Right now, that's Storch-Hrabe #1. I move on when I move on. I also like to use Simandl's 30 and the Sturm.

-Scale Practice: two octave scales up one string as described here: http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=87

-Vomit exercises - usually within one octave. Here I skip around, but try to focus on trouble spots. So I might start with fourth finger on third position D, and vomit up to every other finger using the A major scale one day. Then the next day might be something different - but always vomiting. Sometimes I just work on one interval, or one finger combination. It's always challenging.

-Orchestral excerpts: Trouble spots in pieces for performance. I haven't mastered how to do this yet, I just kind of look at what the orchestra's rehearsing next and find the trouble spots, repeat 'em, then play the whole thing in context. I want to add more "standard repertoire" practice, will start to add excerpts such as Beethoven 9 oratorio. Need lots of help with this, it's definitely the weekest area of my pracitce routine.

-Solo Repertoire -I try to fight the urge to just play solos all the time. So I focus on just one thing: e.g. tuning the double stops at the end of Kouss. mvmt 1. I usually want to play a whole mvmt or two from something I'm working on, warts and all, but I treat that like a "reward" for doing the other work.


-Simple songs from memory or method books. (ala Suzuki bass). I don't do this every day, but try to incorporate it as often as possible.

I never time myself, I just kind of move from one thing to the other before fatigue sets in. It works better for me to just know that I'm going to hit each one of those exercises every day, sometimes for just a very short time.

FWIW, I've been noticing great improvements in my playing since this routine has been established over the last six months or so.


I can't wait to hear some ideas from people with more accomplishments under their belt . . . good thread . . .

[G-force]

Thanks Stan for taking the time. Wonderful stuff ! I liked the link as well to the Karr-brato-cersize.
I'll that one our tomorrow.

I actually should have written a bit more about why the sudden interest in practicing. See about 8 years ago I realized ( I am a late bloomer) that I couldn't get any better. i mean I didn't know how to get better. I had been doing the same , i mean the same practice routine for 10 years. So this was the start of my getting better oddesey.
I have to admit that the day I won my present job I litterally stopped getting better. This went on for a few years. It was really weird. I then realized of course that my practicing was either non existent or just jerking around on the bass. No direction, no concious goals were set for myself. I should also say that for a few years I wasn't so inspired to play too much as I had lots of muscle problems in my right shoulder-upper back. i was later to realize that this was mostly stress related and actually a result of my new situation in a new job-city-surrounding.
My pld routinge was simple, 50minutes-10minutes break x 3.
1 ,scales, one per week, arpeggios
2. etudes
3. solo work+cerpts

what I am interested in now is, what are the practicing tools we use. Do you practice slow,fast,? With a mirror?
When you find a mistake or unwanted aspect of your playing. How do you fix it ? How do we play in tune ? How do we know that we are not doing more harm than good?

OK enough for now

[WalterBush]

I listen for anything that I can't already play, and then learn it. I mean, really learn it--the theory behind it, the use of the bassist's tone on the recording, everything. In the process, I learn scales (in context), new techniques, new musical ideas, everything. Whether or not I end up learning to actually play the tune involved (I still can't play Flight of the Bumblebee, on anything) my knowledge of my instrument and my abilities are increased.

I hate running scales or patterns, although I still do it occasionally. Like Vic Wooten, I think practice should be musical, and I attempt to express my mood while practicing, rather than just trusting to exercises by rote alone. If I don't have a goal, like learning a song, I won't practice, I'll just play.

[Stan Haskins]

Using a mirror is a good idea. One that I don't use but should. i just don't like carrying lots of stuff around, and practice in a public space (living room) where there's no mirror.

Do you ever videotape yourself? I had to do alot of it over the last few months for some scholarship videos and such - I found that sitting and watching myself play was at least as good a cognitive exercise as playing/practicing. I took notes on each "take" to figure out which one I liked best. Then you start to notice WHY you like certain takes better than others. Critiquing other players at master classes made me notice the same thing. And of course, being critiqued by other players. All that stuff makes it easier to direct your practicing, and make goals. I'm sure you could find opportunities to do that at a music school/studio/masterclass over there.

ONe word for tuning: Drones. A few more words: stop on each note and compare it to open strings. That's what Ed Barker told me years ago (the only time I ever met him) and he was right. Throw rhythm and pulse out the window for a small part of your practice to focus on intonation.

I love this topic. I'm sorry to be so wordy, and don't want to dominate the conversation - I'm very obviously and admittedly not at the same level of playing as you are, so the learning curve is alot easier to gauge for me . . . I would love to hear some more input on this topic from pros.

ONe last thing before I shut up: I studied privately with Hal Crook for about a year (he's a jazz trombonist) when I was still trying to be an active "jazz" player and still played slab: IMHO Hal is the master at knowing how to keep yourself improving . . . his stategy is to pick a topic you know you need improvement on, stick to it for about a month, focus everything you do on working on that topic, record yourself practicing, and honestly assess every practice session for your performance in that topic. He always said something along the lines of aiming for 90-95% accuracy - 100% meaning that you should be working on something more challenging, less than 90% meaning you are working on something too hard. It sounds to me, Glenn, that you may want to stay open to ideas that come from other arenas as you've already reached a certain level of mastery at what you do. Maybe learning to play other styles will help you to branch out more, or listen differently.

[sibass89]

I try to practice about 5 hours a day, but I am in college and have the privilege of more practice time then most professionals and especially people who don't work in a music related field.

I break it down this way:

hour 1 - warmups and etudes

I start my warm ups slow and work my way up. I do these things my teacher calls bow calisthenics where I use just my fingers to rock the bow back and forth and draw circles (away from the string). Then I do my some exercises from teacher's workbook, which are slow bow, which is the vomit exercise slurred across two strings, and than a spiccatto practice pattern, and end this hour with my etudes.

hour 2 (sometimes more)

I do all 12 major scales every week with different bowing variations and I do one scale a week out of Hal Robinson's Boardwalkin as well as work my way through the Daily Cycle in Levinson's School of Agility.

hour 3

Excerpts. I work through them, and break them down into all kind s of practice patterns my teacher has me use. I usually concentrate on about 10 a quarter (which is about what we use for our mock auditions)

hour 4 (sometimes 5 as well)

Solos - whatever solos I'm working on usually consists of a sonata/concerto movement and some short pieces

hour 5

Whatever I am playing in orchestra at the time. I break down any tricky passages and learn all the bowings.



Another big part of my practicing is practicing away from the bass. I try to sing through my music, and just study it. Learn all the intervals, hand positions and bowings in my mind. So that I have this mental map before touching the bass. I feel this is really great to do and is absolutely needed so that you aren't searching for everything during practicing on the bass.

[Stan Haskins]

Originally Posted by sibass89

Excerpts. I work through them, and break them down into all kind s of practice patterns my teacher has me use. .

Good stuff. COuld you explain this a little bit? What do you mean by "practice Patterns"?

[sibass89]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

Good stuff. COuld you explain this a little bit? What do you mean by "practice Patterns"?

It's really hard to explain without showing you in person. One thing that we do is called permutations, I add notes to fill in smaller rhythms and do different bow variations. If I knew had to draw them out into PDF I would.

[G-force]

Great stuff guys. Thanks for great input I hope we can really get this going longer.

Stan, I totally hear you on the different styles idea. I am very uptight when it comes to that. BUT I must admit that it would certainly not harm me to try. It's weird, the reason I play the bass is cause I saw ray brown on the merv griffith show ( sorry everyone born after 1975) and wanted to be like him. It stopped there. I love jazz but am blocked to start. This could be my next thread...
Siba, Have I read your posts on Jason's forum ? If so, great stuff. It is hard for me to do 5 hrs a day. I have 4 hr reahearsals in the orchestra in addition to a life outside the bass. I can do 2-3 for now without totally burning out. I am trying to build it up .
Your teachers work book. Any possibility I could get a copy?


Glenn

[sibass89]

G-Force -

Yes those are my posts on Jason's Blog. I completely understand not being able to do 5 hours a day. Very few professionals have the time that student have to practice.

I assume that if you contact Mr. Laszlo (PM me) than you would be able to get his workbook. It's a great tool with a lot of bow work and it actually explains some of his practice techniques like permutations.

[Stan Haskins]

Funny thing, Glenn, for some reason, I kept thinking about your "problem" as I understand it last night. I was going to keep my thoughts to myself, but what the heck.

Here are some options which I think might be up your alley:
1. Get a teacher (obvious, right?)
2. Get determined to "move up" in the orchestra world. YOu're already much further along than I ever will be, I love all the recordings I've heard of the Oslo Phil. But, you did say you haven't improved since yuo won the job. So, try to win another job . .
3. Write your own concerto for performance. We need more literature anyway, and even if it doesn't get played, doing so seems to be a great source of inspiration for other advanced players I've met
4. Learn to play something else. Improvisational or folk music (or historical, or pop, or whatever floats your boat). On another instrument if you're worried about picking up bad habits.
5. Get some students. They'll make you think about the instrument differently. If you already have advanced students, try to get some beginners. Big difference.

Just my two cents, Glenn. Take it for what it's worth (which is about two cents!)

[quenoil]

Not that I have always stuck to this advice, but my teacher (François Rabbath) always insists that you should never practice more than three hours a day, and never more than three days on, one day off. His perspective is that if you are practicing in a really focused way, playing each note with as much concentration and intensity as you can muster, then there is no way you could practice more than that.

As for what those three hours consist of, François's recommendation is 2 hours of scales, arpeggios, and other variations on those kinds of things. Then a break, followed by 1 hour of whatever repertoire you're working on. This is a pretty gross simplification, but it gives at least another perspective on practicing.

[G-force]

Stan, Your cents make sense. I need to clear up something. I have improved since I got this job. I meant that a LONG period went by without any improvement, at least noticeable, that is.
I have tried to get another job. I auditioned a few places in the passed years. Though I really felt that my auditioning is getting better and better I haven't gotten another offer. well nothing permanent that is. In any case I am pretty set on staying here, unless I can get a get Nico Abandolos gig in Santa Barbara, he he he.
I got tired of putting time on audition prep only for it to end up in an audition of 10-15 minutes. My goal now is to get a recital going in a year or so. I would actually audition more, I like it but it is very costly for me to take then so I have to choose wisely.
I plan on taking lessons but not here in town. Too close to my colleagues. I am waiting for some grant applications to throw some cash my way and then I'm off hopefully to the continent.

As for the new styles, I will probably shoot for jazz and modern music. folk is not interesting for me. Maybe some sort of improv...I'm a slow learner and easily distracted.

Quenoil, I have read what you said about Rabbath's method of practicing. I agree with lot's of it. Also that practicing does not need to be more than 3 hrs a day.

OK thanks.

Glenn

[G-force]

Originally Posted by quenoil

Not that I have always stuck to this advice, but my teacher (François Rabbath) always insists that you should never practice more than three hours a day, and never more than three days on, one day off. His perspective is that if you are practicing in a really focused way, playing each note with as much concentration and intensity as you can muster, then there is no way you could practice more than that.

As for what those three hours consist of, François's recommendation is 2 hours of scales, arpeggios, and other variations on those kinds of things. Then a break, followed by 1 hour of whatever repertoire you're working on. This is a pretty gross simplification, but it gives at least another perspective on practicing.

Forgot to ask Quenoil, Could you share some of your experiences with this method of practicing. For example, do you follow it? How does it compare to other forms of practicing. I think Msr Rabbath's ideal is a good one to aim for but difficult none the less . I do remember him saying that to be a virtuouso one must practice like a virtuouso. You gotta walk the walk .

[quenoil]

Originally Posted by G-force

Forgot to ask Quenoil, Could you share some of your experiences with this method of practicing. For example, do you follow it? How does it compare to other forms of practicing. I think Msr Rabbath's ideal is a good one to aim for but difficult none the less . I do remember him saying that to be a virtuouso one must practice like a virtuouso. You gotta walk the walk .

Thanks for asking G-Force. I do try to follow it, although in my case other demands in my life tend to interfere. I always begin with a first practice session of scales, arpeggios, and crab technique excercises but I have rarely worked my way up to two hours. To play scales for two hours takes months of working every day without interruption - you must build slowly from 15 minutes up to two hours. Whenever there's an interruption in your progression, you pretty much need to start again in order to get your muscles ready for that kind of exertion. Preparing for gigs, auditions, and keeping up with my family often require me to focus time in other ways.

Its a goal toward which I am always headed. Sometimes I get off track, but I just adjust course a bit and aim myself toward it again.

As for comparison to other ways of practicing, for me its been the clearest framework to use for developing the things I need to develop. In my scale practice I can focus on so many different issues, bringing to light hurdles I might be encountering in the solo, orchestral, or improvised playing that I'm doing. I also find that if I bring the patient, meditative state of mind developed over long periods of scale practice to my repertoire practice I'm able to identify and overcome problems in a much more systematic and effective way.

Hope that's helpful. It sure is hard to describe these kinds of things in a post...

[shuffles]

Can someone elaborate on what these are?

Thanks

[mcnaire2004]

Basicaly it is doing a scale with one finger sliding up and down.

EX: C major scale

c,D,c,E,c,F,c,G,c,A,c,B,C