On Quality of Practice (or, Deliberate Practice)

[ThomClaire]

I was searching through the forums for this topic but this was all I found. Though it is very useful, it seems not specific enough. So, I am opening a thread for the discussion of deliberate practice; what this means for bassists specifically and in what ways you strive for this (or should strive).

Most of us, if not all of us, agree that what matters most is the quality of our practices, rather than the amount of hours we stand holding the bass. Most of us agree that keeping a practice journal/log and writing down your short-term goals (perhaps for that practice session or that week) is really useful. Aside from that, what I would like to ask relates to the usual, "practice by repetition, until death" method. Let's say you are learning a piece that has a big jump in shifts, and you are practicing hitting that high note right on pitch... if you practice this by repetition, you are practicing doing it wrong, because that is what you are doing over and over. As they say, practice makes permanent, not perfect. The key is practicing perfectly, thus making perfect, permanent. But this presents a pretty big issue, how do we practice perfectly?

So, what are your theoretical thoughts on this? and how do you think we should approach deliberate practice?

[ThomClaire]

You guys are killin' me!

Also wanted to share this. Couldn't help but think of bass throughout the entire article.

[bass81800]

Deliberate Practice... Important Topic!

Paul Wolfe, a bass player, has an interesting blog on this topic. Here is a link:

http://www.deliberatepracticeblog.com/?tag=paul-wolfe

I first learned about deliberate practice by reading "Talent Is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin.

To me, it is about getting out of the comfort zone in the practice room, and it is not easy, but it is where I have learned the most. It also explains why a lot of people do not get better as musicians. It also requires a mindset of self-responsibility, meaning, its not innate talent, its more about focused time spent learning to get better at playing.

[Anonymatt]

Everybody kinda went through all this in the recent thread "how many hours?" It's just a couple threads down.

[bass81800]

Originally Posted by Anonymatt

Everybody kinda went through all this in the recent thread "how many hours?" It's just a couple threads down.

The OP is referencing the specific technique of Deliberate Practice, subject of much research and many books and articles. Would be great to have a discussion on the specific topic of Deliberate Practice, not 'how many hours.' Apples and oranges.

[Anonymatt]

I didn't know Deliberate Practice was a thing until I clicked your link and Remembered to Drink My Ovaltine.

[bass81800]

Here's another really good article on the principles of deliberate practice.

http://www.openeducation.net/2008/11...ambition-meet/

[ThomClaire]

What I was going for was not necessarily a discussion of the principles of deliberate practice, though that is definitely welcome as well, but a discussion of what you do to incorporate these principles. For me, I have begun using the Simandl exercises in a different way. Rather than playing through them until I feel like I have a decent grasp on the position/technique, I have begun playing the exercise at a very slow speed (en = 40bpm), and playing the notes of the exercise with various bow strokes (specifically, long bows, staccato and marcatto [sp?]). I do this a good number of times before I speed it up, doing the same thing, and I continue to speed it up until I am at qn = 80bpm. The reason I am doing this is that, I think, through this my mind will begin to more easily become acquainted with new music as I am doing this with a different exercise each day. So later, when I go through the process of learning a solo piece (or whatever have you), I will be able to learn it faster. Essentially, it is learning how to learn through learning unfamiliar material more frequently. I suppose this seems very basic when read, but the way I am understanding it now is very new, very exciting, and very promising.

[Anonymatt]

That last article bass81800 posted talked a little bit about metacognition. I think that a deep level of self-evaluation and introspection, from moment to moment, is necessary to advance, and to generalize concepts taken from specific experiences. It's probably the fundamental reason why humans seem so smart.

I get bored playing stuff I already play well. I really like to be caught up in the nasty bits. It's fun to be playing something challenging and think "hey, this sounds pretty good," but I think a lot of personality types get hooked on the reassuring high of performing something they know really well. This is like people you know that talk themselves up or practice optimism with weak rationale.

I think starting slow is fine. Sometimes your teacher will know when you need to try to take it to the next level. My teacher (mostly jazz) always says "The thing about the bow is it's hard to play slow and it's hard to play fast."

[Dbass926]

I had a teacher tell me that there isn't much merit to playing something so slow that it's within your ability to just execute it perfectly. Deliberate practice for me has evolved into being extremely critical and honest about the sound coming out of my instrument. If I am playing a note out of tune, was it because of a note before or after? Was it because of a problem with my finger or my hand position or arm weight? Likewise if my tone suffers on a note, is it because of a poorly angled now? Too much speed, or weight?
By attacking the reasons behind shortcomings in my playing in a relaxed and unemotional way, I try to correct them specifically in that piece. I don't assume fixing my up bow sfz in one piece means it will be fixed elsewhere.

As for étude work, I try to develop strokes and good habits in exercises but only those things that I don't already feel comfortable with. As a previous post said, focusing on weaknesses and understanding your own strengths is a very efficient process for improving.

[ThomClaire]

I think another good question would be, how much time (in proportion to repertoire, not in minutes) should be spent practicing technique alone? I'm finding so many great technical exercises and practice that I could easily spend an hour and a half of concentrated and focused technical practice, but I'm afraid I will neglect the musicality of it all, as well as solo/orch. rep.

[Andrew McGregor]

Well, I think the top question to ask, in deliberate practice, is what should I practice today? And then, even if it's the same piece as yesterday, what aspect should I focus on? So one time it'll be intonation, one will be rhythm, one will be phrasing... or whatever you want to improve. I have spent a session on a single bar of music occasionally.

[David Potts]

IMO you need to clearly understand why you are practicing something, how to go about improving it and how to measure success.

"HEE" is the acronym I use to help focus my practice. Hands train to find and make the notes, Ears guide the hands and measure success, and Eyes accurately read the music and help the ears plan phrasing.

I find that practicing at white hot intensity for hours on end without planned breaks for mental and physical relief can be counter productive if at the same time my critical faculties become dulled.To me how you proportion your time and intensity of practice is important. I try to end my warm up feeling mentally, physically and technically ready to make real progress with what follows (be "in the zone?). Careful repetition of passages, be they long or just fragments, is valid both musically and technically in my HEE belief. Aren't we practicing to encrypt the brain with the best possible information? Then try pumping up the speed, because I see speed as the ultimate test of technique (if not always of musicianship).

My observation is that as a student I found it hard to make straight line progress and that I would sometimes plateau no matter how hard I tried. I am not a great fan of the "ten thousand hours" theory but it takes time, years, to develop and mature both technically and musically.

Yes to Deliberate Practice but also learn to be patient and take a longer, broader view of your development.

Cheers,

DP

[bass81800]

I am getting ready to practice for a few hours, and have decided to map out my practice goals for the week, Monday to Sunday in a Practice Planner book. I am going to focus on smaller details and specific, reachable goals. If I get really good at staying on track during the week, I think I will also record some of my practicing and evaluate it.

Practicing something I already know is not deliberate practice, in my mind. Performance is not exactly deliberate practice either. Just, also, trying to get a better understanding.

I know, for myself, that I made my best improvement in playing when I was studying with a teacher who kept giving me the same assignments, week after week, until I played it up to his standards. These were Simandl exercises and work on arpeggios and scales up and down the fingerboard in all 12 keys. Grueling work, in a way, and had to take breaks while working on it, but I finally overcome a lot of my intonation problems and had better mastery of the fingerboard. I was forced to dig deeper into each exercise and pay attention to all aspects: intonation, phrasing, rhythm, meter, time consistency, and my focus would shift to different areas as the weeks unfolded. The teacher never called it deliberate practice, but since I am usually good at practicing regularly and not using my time just rehashing what I already know, I would call this Deliberate Practice.

Another thing is to set goals that are reachable within a certain period of time, and stay away from any goals that would put you in a sense of panic mode trying to accomplish them. Goals need to be realistic and reachable. Better to have three goals and really work on them vs. having 20 goals and trying to get through them all at each session.

[eerbrev]

I've tried over and over as the years have passed to try and keep a practice log, or some sort of written progress report or something, and I'm always unsuccessful. It's just never been helpful to me, save in one case: notating how much time I ACTUALLY spend practicing, and not how many hours I spend in the practice room. The two times are related, but not the same. I'm sure that this isn't a foreign concept to you guys, but for the benefit of anyone passing by in future, i mean that unless you're doing meaningful work in your head or with bow in hand, you're not practicing. Playing your favourite excerpt for fun isn't practicing, checking your text messages isn't practicing, looking at the cute girl in the practice room across the hall is also not practicing.

I spent a week documenting the minutes I actually spent practicing inside of my hours in a practice room a few years back, and I found I was only getting maybe 15-20 minutes of legitimate work done per hour. That's a lot of wasted time, so I decided to fix it. I'm now closer to about 40 minutes real work inside of an hour, with a planned 5-10 minute break. Not perfect, could improve, but better at least.

Other things that I do to help with deliberate practice: I've adopted a warm-up and technique workout that I do ever day (or at least try to, sometimes life gets in the way). and I've developed a "toolbox" of problem solving tricks to deal with difficult chunks in pieces. My tools range from the large mallet of repetition to more fine tuned implements like galamian rhythms. Every time I come across a problem passage, I open up my toolbox, find the appropriate tool and work away.

Idunno, I feel pretty inexperienced around here in comparison to a lot of you folks. I'm still just a young guy (applying for masters degrees), so I feel like I'm just saying what you guys already know.

eerbrev

[ThomClaire]

Originally Posted by eerbrev

I've tried over and over as the years have passed to try and keep a practice log, or some sort of written progress report or something, and I'm always unsuccessful. It's just never been helpful to me, save in one case: notating how much time I ACTUALLY spend practicing, and not how many hours I spend in the practice room. The two times are related, but not the same. I'm sure that this isn't a foreign concept to you guys, but for the benefit of anyone passing by in future, i mean that unless you're doing meaningful work in your head or with bow in hand, you're not practicing. Playing your favourite excerpt for fun isn't practicing, checking your text messages isn't practicing, looking at the cute girl in the practice room across the hall is also not practicing.

I spent a week documenting the minutes I actually spent practicing inside of my hours in a practice room a few years back, and I found I was only getting maybe 15-20 minutes of legitimate work done per hour. That's a lot of wasted time, so I decided to fix it. I'm now closer to about 40 minutes real work inside of an hour, with a planned 5-10 minute break. Not perfect, could improve, but better at least.

Other things that I do to help with deliberate practice: I've adopted a warm-up and technique workout that I do ever day (or at least try to, sometimes life gets in the way). and I've developed a "toolbox" of problem solving tricks to deal with difficult chunks in pieces. My tools range from the large mallet of repetition to more fine tuned implements like galamian rhythms. Every time I come across a problem passage, I open up my toolbox, find the appropriate tool and work away.

Idunno, I feel pretty inexperienced around here in comparison to a lot of you folks. I'm still just a young guy (applying for masters degrees), so I feel like I'm just saying what you guys already know.

eerbrev

Could you describe your warm up and technique workout to us? That would be great to hear. I have been working on creating my own that I feel suits my needs as a beginner, while also keeping in mind that I am very self-motivated, and very driven to learn the bass well.

(I have some responses to other posts, but since I need to sleep and be at work in less than four hours, I think I'll wait :P)

[Heifetzbass]

What is your teacher telling you to do in your practice sessions? It is true that you need to figure out "your" process, but your teacher should be guiding you in best practices.

BG

[bass81800]

Originally Posted by Heifetzbass

What is your teacher telling you to do in your practice sessions? It is true that you need to figure out "your" process, but your teacher should be guiding you in best practices.

BG

I have studied with some great teachers, but I just cannot think of any teacher who ever spent much, if any, time explaining to me how to practice. Yes, the teacher explained what to practice. Often the "what" was written down or part of a handout. Back then, I never really thought to ask.

This was even with my two main bass teachers being almost opposites in their approach. Teacher 1 would ask me. so what do you want to work on today? Teacher 2 would get out the list of practice items, and I would play the assignments from the list.

The teachers would say things like you have a good work ethic, you have been working on it, I can tell you practiced, but, still, to this day, even after reading about deliberate practice, making up a weekly schedule, learning that down time, even in an hour of practice is normal, I guess I am still learning how to practice. Maybe I practiced more effectively than their other students, and they felt I did not need direction in this area, but this whole topic has kind of become an obsession with me.

One reason I started using a practice planner is to help me get started. I find I sit down to practice with kind of a blank idea of what to do, and, having things written down jogs my memory.

[eerbrev]

Originally Posted by ThomClaire

Could you describe your warm up and technique workout to us? That would be great to hear. I have been working on creating my own that I feel suits my needs as a beginner, while also keeping in mind that I am very self-motivated, and very driven to learn the bass well.

(I have some responses to other posts, but since I need to sleep and be at work in less than four hours, I think I'll wait :P)

I've posted this in the doublebass subreddit a couple of times, so I'll repost it here too. It's not complete, because some of the exercises I do are exercises that came out of a teacher's book that he hasn't published and I don't want to step on toes about that, and also because they would require a fair amount of explanation. I got this set of exercises from the aforementioned teacher and don't take any credit for them.

1.) long tones, d string, 60bpm. 4 beats, 6 beats, 8 beats, 10 beats. don't change lengths until you're happy with your bow changes.

2.) string crossing exercise. 60 bpm. changing between G-D, then D-A, then A-E, then E-A, then A-D, then D-G, every eighth note. 4 Quarters to a bow, then 2 quarters to a bow, then 1 Quarter, then separate 8th notes. try to play these as close to the bridge as possible, don't fear that gritty sound, learn to make it better.

3.) one finger scale on G string, 2 octaves. 60 bpm. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4 (up the first octave g, then back down).

4.) Vomits on g string (or D string for extra challenge). Quarters or 8ths at 60 bpm. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-1.

After this, pick a scale (or, unlike me, do it the smart way and have planned out what scale you're doing that day), and use Boardwalkin' - by Hal Robinson. After that, use your favourite set of bowing variations on that scale.

That's what I go through before i do meaningful work. I find not only doing it, but doing it every time, helps focus me a lot. It also helps me build good technique into my daily practicing and reminds me to keep it in my daily work.

eerbrev

[BostonPop01]

Practice isn't some elusive or lofty topic. If your teacher isn't directly addressing how to practice, then it is up to you to make use of the dozens of books and articles on the topic. Practice is something that should always be evolving--the better musician you are, the better your practicing is, and vice versa-- but there are basic tenets about mind/body coordination, repetition, and gesture building that are a part of any musician's routine who has even the slightest conception of what efficient and successful practice is regardless of instrument or what they happen to be working on.

Several sources I'd recommend are:
Performance Success by Don Greene
The Bulletproof Musician Blog by Dr. Noa Kageyama
Mastering the Art of Perfomance by Stewart Gordon
Practicing for Artistic Success by Burton Kaplan
Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugen Herrigel
Heidi Castleman's viola studio at Juilliard also has an excellent blog on various topics, including practice: http://americanviolasociety.org/studio/

If you aren't constantly striving for more efficient ways to practice, you're probably not approaching practice from a perspective that professional musicians utilize it. But recognizing that fault is the first step...