Rabbath still cool?

chicagodoubler · #1 01-06-2009, 12:00 AM

Just wondering what happened...
10 years ago every other word seemed to be praising Rabbath... are we really that fickle, or have some of us returned to Simandl, etc...?

FI, the ubiquitous eggpin seems to have evolved or vanished in many circles, and fellas just don't seem to be using his books much anymore.

The reason for my curiosity: I've been revisiting some of his books and concepts and getting great results!!!!

Are you guys still teaching/ playing any of his methodology? Are there any teachers besides Sturm and Ellison still teaching the whole system?

thedbassist · #2 01-06-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Just wondering what happened...
10 years ago every other word seemed to be praising Rabbath... are we really that fickle, or have some of us returned to Simandl, etc...?

FI, the ubiquitous eggpin seems to have evolved or vanished in many circles, and fellas just don't seem to be using his books much anymore.

The reason for my curiosity: I've been revisiting some of his books and concepts and getting great results!!!!

Are you guys still teaching/ playing any of his methodology? Are there any teachers besides Sturm and Ellison still teaching the whole system?

I think Rabbath is awesomely cool. If you want some teachers who know the whole system, Ithaca's professor(forgot his name), Sandor Ostlund, Ali Yazdanfar, Jean Michon and Gary Karr! jk about Gary. I think Rabbath's concepts are amazing, although some need to be kind of fit for the orchestra world(I don't collapse my fingers) but I pivot and torque and am a big believer in the 6 positions and use the Laborie endpin. I think Rabbath's greatest contribution is his use of the bow though.

MDEbass · #3 01-06-2009, 12:32 AM

I've recently been listening to recordings of him and think he's awesome. Theres a cool interview with Rabbath on the Contrabass Conversations podcast

JazzyLambert · #4 01-06-2009, 06:30 AM

Had a teacher (1 lesson only) who worshipped Rabbath so rabidly that he made me play with my german bow held in a french grip. I know that Rabbath is one of the great virtuosos/composers/technichians/iconoclasts of DB,,,,but this guy really put me off him.

thedbassist · #5 01-06-2009, 12:59 PM

There are bad teachers of every method, a lot of people also don't really understand the Rabbath technique imo. They think it's set in stone and that if you can play it on another string with less shifts then you have to play it that way, what they don't realize is that the Rabbath technique gives you the tools to do whatever you want to(not give you the tools to only do it one type of way). It's really artistic imo, Rabbath doesn't want a lot of Rabbath clones, he wants a lot of musicians who have every tool at their disposal imo.

Also, that teacher sounds like an amateur. I can't imagine anybody trying to make me play a German bow with a french grip(I'm a frenchie btw).

dchan · #6 01-06-2009, 01:50 PM

^ I remember talking to Francois' son, Olivier - the one who sells the bass case. We both agreed that technique you use means nothing if you can't affect the emotions of the listener - in the end, music is an art-form and not a science.

Dr Rod · #7 01-06-2009, 10:03 PM

Rabbath is a genius that explored little known techniques, and I think everyone should have a serious look at what he has to say.

Having said that, in the 90s many took Rabbath as sort of a cult, and that's not healthy either.

chicagodoubler · #8 01-08-2009, 09:35 PM

Anybody still using his books? I recently went through the exercises and etudes in book 1 and was surprised by how tricky and musical they are!

quenoil · #9 01-09-2009, 10:22 AM

I use his books, and use them with my students as well. I'm pretty sure they are among the most popular bass method books - many, many people use them.

CreamJeans · #10 01-09-2009, 11:45 AM

rabbath is still too cool 4 school...i mean too cool to teach at school! lol

damonsmith · #11 01-09-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

Rabbath is a genius that explored little known techniques, and I think everyone should have a serious look at what he has to say.

Having said that, in the 90s many took Rabbath as sort of a cult, and that's not healthy either.

That sums it up. It isn't any sort of wholesale replacement for what came before, unless you only want to play just like him.

thedbassist · #12 01-09-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

That sums it up. It isn't any sort of wholesale replacement for what came before, unless you only want to play just like him.

What does wholesale replacement mean?

Joe Gress · #13 01-09-2009, 03:15 PM

I'm going through his books right now.

damonsmith · #14 01-09-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedbassist

What does wholesale replacement mean?

Well, I am proponent of being aware of as many methods as possible.
I think to really get Rabbath you should at least be familiar with Nanny, which is what he was reacting against.
It is a very personal and I would say reactionary method and also depends a lot on set up which can limit the strength of the sound which may not be suitable for the widest breadth of styles a bassist might need to be proficient in today.

At the same time, so much of it is extremely useful, and anyone wanting a serious overview of the instrument cannot dismiss it.

quenoil · #15 01-09-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I think to really get Rabbath you should at least be familiar with Nanny, which is what he was reacting against.
It is a very personal and I would say reactionary method and also depends a lot on set up which can limit the strength of the sound

This is just not true.

Kjetil Laukholm · #16 01-09-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

FI, the ubiquitous eggpin seems to have evolved or vanished in many circles, and fellas just don't seem to be using his books much anymore.
?

The eggpin (ellison/gilbert pin) has evolved and he (professor ellison) now drills a hole instead. Ellison certainly incorporates a lot of Rabbath in his teaching and it has certainly not diminished.

damonsmith · #17 01-09-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quenoil

This is just not true.

I like your argument!

thedbassist · #18 01-09-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I like your argument!

Damon, why do you constantly bash Rabbath as bad for a beginning bass method? Where have you gotten your knowledge from concerning the Rabbath method?

damonsmith · #19 01-09-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedbassist

Damon, why do you constantly bash Rabbath as bad for a beginning bass method? Where have you gotten your knowledge from concerning the Rabbath method?

I studied it with someone two away from Rabbath. I think it is fine if the beginner is set on being a classical soloist.
The set up, pivots and approach to sound production just does not transfer to the wider needs of a working bass player playing jazz, classical and whatever else is thrown at them, as I keep saying, such a person also needs to be well aware of Rabbath's contribution.

For starters, you are just never going to get a powerful pizzicato tone like William Parker or Paul Chambers using that system.
You can, however with the left hand parts of Simandl and Petracchi.

I think some methods are better to start with than others, but I don't think we can get every single thing we need from any of them.

quenoil · #20 01-10-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I like your argument!

I'm not arguing. What you say is objectively untrue. To say that Rabbath was reacting against Nanny is to really misunderstand him. And to think that using his method books (or technique in general) has something to do with how a bass is set up just isn't right. His technique was developed, and the books were written, when Francois used a totally different setup than he uses now. And people all over world using all kinds of basses, strings, etc, playing jazz, classical music, pop music, etc use his method and technique.