searching for bow studies

[skywalker]

hello there,

I just bought a EUB and I wont to study some bow exercise in classical style, where can I find something?... for beginner or intermediate...

thank you

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by skywalker

hello there,

I just bought a EUB and I wont to study some bow exercise in classical style, where can I find something?... for beginner or intermediate...

thank you

bille, school of the bow.

[skywalker]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

bille, school of the bow.

sorry?

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by skywalker

sorry?

It's the name of a book. Another one to check out is A contemporary concept of Bowing Techniques for the Double Bass by Oscar Zimmerman. Also Strokin by Hal Robinson or any other Sevcik adaptation. But if you've never played with a bow, any of the rudimentary bass methods such as those by Simandl, Bille or Nanny (There are others but these seem to be the big three here in the states) will help a lot. But I'd say save your money on the books and get a couple of lessons and make sure your EUB is setup properly to bow as they are usually not.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by koricancowboy

It's the name of a book. Another one to check out is A contemporary concept of Bowing Techniques for the Double Bass by Oscar Zimmerman. Also Strokin by Hal Robinson or any other Sevcik adaptation. But if you've never played with a bow, any of the rudimentary bass methods such as those by Simandl, Bille or Nanny (There are others but these seem to be the big three here in the states) will help a lot. But I'd say save your money on the books and get a couple of lessons and make sure your EUB is setup properly to bow as they are usually not.

The Contemporary Concept of Bowing Technique really falls flat in my opinion...I think the author had a good idea but it becomes redundant after page 3 of 4. Basically what he's saying is that you should find where all the notes lie in a piece of music, and play the open strings without stopping the notes so you can get your bow used to the string changes...This makes perfect sense, you just don't need an entire book to teach you that.

The best I've seen is the Bille "School of the Bow" which is a section at the end of the book that contains many different bowing exercises and articulations. I should have told you the ACTUAL title of the book, my apologies. It's "Bille - Nuovo Metodo per Contrabasso, Part 1. ii. Corso practico. ER 262."

Make sure it's ER 262, the School of the Bow starts on page 37.

Happy Strokin'!

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

The Contemporary Concept of Bowing Technique really falls flat in my opinion...I think the author had a good idea but it becomes redundant after page 3 of 4. Basically what he's saying is that you should find where all the notes lie in a piece of music, and play the open strings without stopping the notes so you can get your bow used to the string changes...This makes perfect sense, you just don't need an entire book to teach you that.

The Zimmerman book is not the easiest book to go through on your own. It helps to have a teacher to guide you through it. That being said, it is very tedious and seems redundant at times but if you go through it thoroughly your bow technique will be very solid by the time you are done with it.

Also, it is written by Fred Zimmermann not Oscar. Oscar put together the Complete Orchestral parts.

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

The Contemporary Concept of Bowing Technique really falls flat in my opinion...I think the author had a good idea but it becomes redundant after page 3 of 4. Basically what he's saying is that you should find where all the notes lie in a piece of music, and play the open strings without stopping the notes so you can get your bow used to the string changes...This makes perfect sense, you just don't need an entire book to teach you that.

You're not supposed to use open strings. Better look back at those three or four pages.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by Calvin Marks

The Contemporary Concept of Bowing Technique really falls flat in my opinion...I think the author had a good idea but it becomes redundant after page 3 of 4. Basically what he's saying is that you should find where all the notes lie in a piece of music, and play the open strings without stopping the notes so you can get your bow used to the string changes...This makes perfect sense, you just don't need an entire book to teach you that.

The best I've seen is the Bille "School of the Bow" which is a section at the end of the book that contains many different bowing exercises and articulations. I should have told you the ACTUAL title of the book, my apologies. It's "Bille - Nuovo Metodo per Contrabasso, Part 1. ii. Corso practico. ER 262."

Make sure it's ER 262, the School of the Bow starts on page 37.

Happy Strokin'!

Calvin,

I'm gonna have to go ahead and defend my love of the Zimmerman book. If you think it falls flat I think you haven't studied it fully or correctly. First off, my edition doesn't dictate open strings anywhere in the book. It just about lies all between the a on the d string and the e a fifth above on th g string except pages 8 and 9 which prepare you to hold your bow as close tho the adjacent string as possible without stroking it. Maybe you're edition is different and if so maybe you should get a different edition.

Secondly, the a and e are just starting points I use the exercises in all positions. The only open strings I use are open E and A. In addition, using the exercises with diatonic thirds up and down scales is a miracle ear trainer.

I don't want to sound confrontational as we all have valid opinions on Talkbass and there is more than one method for a reason. Having said that, have you gone past page 3 or 4 (which incidentally is just the preface)? I have to say if you haven't you should check it out a little further, especially the parts about bow division and recovery (diagrammed very nicely BTW). Frederick Zimmerman, which I am very sure you know, figured out a couple of things about playing the bass and as such deserves an in depth look. YMMV.

Sometimes we misunderstand each other on the web (it's happened a couple of times to me as of late) so I want to make clear I am not being confrontational but merely stating my opinion.

P.S. I like Bille too

Cheers,
Oz

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

The Zimmerman book is not the easiest book to go through on your own. It helps to have a teacher to guide you through it. That being said, it is very tedious and seems redundant at times but if you go through it thoroughly your bow technique will be very solid by the time you are done with it.

Also, it is written by Fred Zimmermann not Oscar. Oscar put together the Complete Orchestral parts.

You're right, my bad. It sounds awful but I confuse the two often.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by koricancowboy

Calvin,

I'm gonna have to go ahead and defend my love of the Zimmerman book. If you think it falls flat I think you haven't studied it fully or correctly. First off, my edition doesn't dictate open strings anywhere in the book. It just about lies all between the a on the d string and the e a fifth above on th g string except pages 8 and 9 which prepare you to hold your bow as close tho the adjacent string as possible without stroking it. Maybe you're edition is different and if so maybe you should get a different edition.

Secondly, the a and e are just starting points I use the exercises in all positions. The only open strings I use are open E and A. In addition, using the exercises with diatonic thirds up and down scales is a miracle ear trainer.

I don't want to sound confrontational as we all have valid opinions on Talkbass and there is more than one method for a reason. Having said that, have you gone past page 3 or 4 (which incidentally is just the preface)? I have to say if you haven't you should check it out a little further, especially the parts about bow division and recovery (diagrammed very nicely BTW). Frederick Zimmerman, which I am very sure you know, figured out a couple of things about playing the bass and as such deserves an in depth look. YMMV.

Sometimes we misunderstand each other on the web (it's happened a couple of times to me as of late) so I want to make clear I am not being confrontational but merely stating my opinion.

P.S. I like Bille too

Cheers,
Oz

In all fairness, I need to look through this book again before I share another opinion. My previous thoughts came from knowledge of playing through the book about 6 or 7 years ago. I'll take a look at it again and report back.

-Calvin

[Bassicaly]

Streicher 1,2,3,4,5 everything you need.Gary Karr also has great material.

[chicagodoubler]

Sevcik!!!!!!!!

Really.

The *best* book for bow control. Violinists have been using it since the dark ages.

Ever wonder why we can't play as well as fiddle players?
See above....

[Stan Haskins]

Originally Posted by chicagodoubler

Sevcik!!!!!!!!

Really.

The *best* book for bow control. Violinists have been using it since the dark ages.

Ever wonder why we can't play as well as fiddle players?
See above....

+1 on Sevcik. I like the Reinke edition, but I haven't seen the others.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

+1 on Sevcik. I like the Reinke edition, but I haven't seen the others.

Yep! +2 Sevcik is great! I use it with Contemporary concept and the results have been great. There are a bunch of editions. I like Neil Tarlton's the best. http://www.neiltarlton.com/ Also you can download a grat little package Miloslaw Gadjos put together. http://doublebassblog.org/downloads/...ingle-page.pdf But for string crossing The Zimmerman book is hard to beat.

[damonsmith]

I am going to give a big +1 on the Zimmerman book. I was really excited when I found it and it has a ton of great information.
It sounds like the OP might just be looking for something more standard - like Simandl.
Simandl is the standard bass method, there are lots of opinions about which is better.
I still find starting with Simandl to be the best concept, but just don't end there.

Sticking to one bass method for a lifetime is a pretty dumb idea, when you think about it. All of them have great information and each one unlocks slightly or radically different things.
I may not do each method cover to cover, but checking each one out is really the most ideal.
I mean, we play the instrument for decades so there is time!
I personally don't want my music hindered by a lack of information.

[David Kaczorowski]

I bought the Zimmerman book on my own initiative years ago while I was studying with a really solid classical cat and well-known Philly-area teacher. I took it to a lesson and we discussed it a bit. Essentially the book is about what my teacher liked to call "bow-to-destination," and which was something he'd been hammering into me long prior to my buying the book. Rather than playing the exercises as written, he told me to to use those bowings while playing scales in thirds (3rds played across strings). And just for the hell of it, do it in Ab or Db major. The point of doing it while playing scales rather than merely A and E is having to alter the bow speed as you ascend and descend rather than doing it at the same place on the neck and not having to change the speed of your bow. Then he told me if anyone doesn't get the point of the book in the first 2 or 3 pages they must be retarded.

[koricancowboy]

I totally agree with your teacher. My teacher says the same thing for about every method out there. Simandl can be summed up in the exercises for major and minor scales for example. But, I am not going to take the initiative to come up with every possible bowing variation Zimmerman put down in the book. As such, its nice to have it laid out for me. I also agree that this is not about e and a, Zimmerman himself taught it between all the strings and in different positions. My teacher has me play double stopped thirds going diatonic throughout the key, then in alternating thirds, fourths, fifths etc as well as broken thirds. My teacher was fairly consistent early on and has won two major jobs, so I'll take his word for it. Maybe I'm retarded but I'll keep plodding along.

[David Kaczorowski]

We're on the same page, so to speak. The "retarded" comment isn't to say that "bow-to-destination" should come easily, w/o practice, but rather that you don't need that book and those specific exercises to practice that point.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by David Kaczorowski

We're on the same page, so to speak. The "retarded" comment isn't to say that "bow-to-destination" should come easily, w/o practice, but rather that you don't need that book and those specific exercises to practice that point.

Definitely,

I just used the word to convey that I use a bunch of the etudes in there even though the scale exercise and the first sample of variations page is all you need. It becomes interesting when he starts to add slurs and limits you to 1/8 of your bow and you've got to do 8th note detache or spicatto bowings at 1/2 note = 140. Also because sometimes I just brain fart and need someone else to come up with variations for me. I agree that you don't need the book but it has helped me. Boardwalkin's string crossing exercises are equally good as well as just sitting there for twenty minutes mindfully crossing strings.

[Stan Haskins]

Originally Posted by koricancowboy

. Boardwalkin's string crossing exercises are equally good as well as just sitting there for twenty minutes mindfully crossing strings.

I think you might mean "Strokin'", which is a Sevcik adaptation, right? My copy of Boardwalkin' is all about scale fingerings, using pivots. Or did I miss something?