Strange effect with my forte

[lloccmttocs]

I'm not sure if this was said before but I felt I should try it out.

Lately during practice ocasionally when I play on the G string very forte, the string seems to rasp and sound really bad. It isn't the string breaking I think it is something to do with the string bouncing somewhere either off a string or off something, maybe I am doing someting wrong with my forte strokes like pressing too hard. It almost sounds like a slap bass mixed with arco bowing.

Anyways to clean this up? I'm a very enthusiastic bower so sometimes I can get a little too into it.

[bassman1489]

it is probably hitting against the fingerboard. this could mean that you are applying too much downward force into the string.

i am afraid that if i try to explain how to fix this without showing you, i will end up confusing you, so i will leave that to the more experienced players/teachers on here.

the string could also be too close to the fingerboard, in which case you would just have to adjust the bridge a little bit.

[Cory Palmer]

It's probably that the string is buzzing against the fingerboard. An easy fix to that is raise the string height. I agree that you are probably putting too much downward pressure. Try putting more pressure horizontally instead of vertically. You don't have to use faster bow speed to get more pressure horizontally. I hope that makes sense.

[mcnaire2004]

Sounds like like its buzzing but there could be another problem. I have noticed on my bass that if my tuners are not tight or the part of the spring on my c extension is out then for some reason it will tune it's self to a specific note and every time I play that note it will ring. But with a simple twist of the ringing are it should be fixed. Or, (a bassist I used to know) played with close pins on all of the tuners to kill the buzz.

[Cory Palmer]

A lot of people wrap rubber bands around their tuners. This winter I had to put some on mine because my g string tuner was buzzing.

[PaulCannon]

The most likely problem, and the easiest fix, is to check the angle of your bow. Usually when a buzz is only on the G and E strings, it's because the bow is angled much further than necessary and causes the string to vibrate against the fingerboard rather than near it.

When you're playing loudly, check to see where the tip of your bow points. If it's into the ribs and toward your left knee, then this could be the problem. The bow should be angled so that a bow change to the D string would be no more movement than a bow change from the D to the A string.

[jallenbass]

Are you playing too close to the fingerboard?

[lloccmttocs]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Are you playing too close to the fingerboard?

I thought about that, but my instincts say no. Because I used to do it but after countless naggings by my teacher I just moved my bow arm down that inch that makes the big difference. Now-a-days I try and play as close to the bridge when ever I can afford it like during long bow passages or very forte sections.

[thedbassist]

maybe you shouldn't use pressure, use weight by transferring weight onto your first finger and thumb by relaxing your arm, and as you pull the bow farther( when going up the bow) tilt your elbow up to apply more weight, not pressure.

[bassman1489]

Originally Posted by thedbassist

maybe you shouldn't use pressure, use weight by transferring weight onto your first finger and thumb by relaxing your arm, and as you pull the bow farther( when going up the bow) tilt your elbow up to apply more weight, not pressure.

this is something along the lines of what i would have said. it might be helpful if we knew if you played french or german (i might have missed that...)

what thedbassist is describing is pronation, and something you should talk to your teacher about it. everyone has a different opinion on that, but you should listen to your teachers.

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by thedbassist

and as you pull the bow farther( when going up the bow) tilt your elbow up to apply more weight, not pressure.

I have to disagree with you on tilting the elbow up. To get weight into the bow you need to keep the elbow down. But tilting the elbow up you are cutting off your ability to use weight and are forced to use muscle. You might be saying what I mean but the way you wrote it makes me think the the opposite. When I think elbow up I think the outside of the elbow turning up. Try to keep the inside of the elbow facing up as much as possible. Also, with German bow try to keep the elbow below the plane of the bow. I'm not sure if you can do this with French bow. I think you can.

[Kam]

Do you practice facing a full-length mirror? It might be that you are bowing too close to the fingerboard and not realizing it. Perhaps you notice it more when you are crossing from your E or A string to the G while at forte+ dynamics? Watching your bow in the mirror during the passages it occurs will show you where your bow is..more so than just viewing it from above.

Talk to your teacher about it, demonstrate how and when it happens. If it's the bass, he/she should be able to tell you how to proceed if they're worth their salt.

[PaulCannon]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

I have to disagree with you on tilting the elbow up. To get weight into the bow you need to keep the elbow down. But tilting the elbow up you are cutting off your ability to use weight and are forced to use muscle. You might be saying what I mean but the way you wrote it makes me think the the opposite. When I think elbow up I think the outside of the elbow turning up. Try to keep the inside of the elbow facing up as much as possible. Also, with German bow try to keep the elbow below the plane of the bow. I'm not sure if you can do this with French bow. I think you can.

If it's a french bow, then tilting the elbow up is what you're supposed to do.

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

If it's a french bow, then tilting the elbow up is what you're supposed to do.

I'm wanting to get a French sometime in the near future so I'll mess around with this stuff but tilting the elbow up can cause some elbow problems if you are not careful. If I remember I'l try to ask some of the french bow guys around Peabody what they do. For both bows you have to turn the elbow up a little bit at times, probably more on french bow, just be careful about overdoing it.

[jdapodaca]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

Try to keep the inside of the elbow facing up as much as possible. Also, with German bow try to keep the elbow below the plane of the bow. I'm not sure if you can do this with French bow. I think you can.

Can you explain this a little more? Which is the inside and which way is up? Also, what do you mean by keeping the elbow below the plane of the bow?

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by jdapodaca

Can you explain this a little more? Which is the inside and which way is up? Also, what do you mean by keeping the elbow below the plane of the bow?

If you have the palm of your hand facing up the side of your elbow that is facing up at the same time is the inside of your elbow. You cannot see the inside of your elbow when your arm is bent all the way.

By "plane" I mean an imaginary line going from where the pressure from your body goes into the bow and your shoulder. The easiest way to find the plane is to try to play with a straight arm. Don't bend or rotate your elbow at all. It's hard to go much above the plane.

For a long time I tried to come at the bow from above this plane. I'd end up turning the elbow up so that the inside of my elbow was almost pointing down. That was before I thought about this.

When you are playing do you push or pull the bow into the string? Can you get more force by pushing or pulling? Which takes less energy to yield the same results? Which do your arm muscles do more naturally? A simple test to find the answers to these questions is to hold out your left arm and put your right hand on your left forearm. Now try pushing and pulling and see how your muscles react. Put your right arm at different angles maybe even change your grip. Experiment a little and find what feels natural.

[lloccmttocs]

For those of you interested, I play 95% German, Lately I have been dabbling with French but I am in no way proficient with it.

[BGreaney]

I haven't read all of the posts, so if I'm repeating I apologize.

The sound is most likely due to your strings being too close to the fingerboard because of the dry weather in the winter. Your bass is compressing because of the lack of humidity and as a result the strings end up coming too close to the fingerboard. Likewise, in the summer, strings end up too high and appropriate adjustments should be made as well. However, this is less noticed because the only problem one encounters with this is having to push down harder on the strings. No buzzing to let you know anything is wrong. If you have an adjustable bridge, you should just raise it enough so that the buzzing doesn't happen anymore. My friend didn't have an adjustable bridge on one of his old basses and he put this stuff on in the notches of his bridge to help elevate the strings a bit. I forgot what it was called. SOme kind of white tape'ish stuff. Eh, anyway, hope this rant helps.

[thedbassist]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

If it's a french bow, then tilting the elbow up is what you're supposed to do.

Thank you, tilting the elbow up for more weight i.e. leverage was only intended for french bow, I've never used a german bow.