Techniques for fast, loud articulation

[Felessan]

Hey all,

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts and techniques on playing quick, loud, articulate arco passages.

Different sub-topics:
- Near the bridge
- Near the fingerboard

...for orchestral music.

-Trevor

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by Felessan

Hey all,

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts and techniques on playing quick, loud, articulate arco passages.

Different sub-topics:
- Near the bridge
- Near the fingerboard

...for orchestral music.

-Trevor

I do it all nearer to the bridge than most, more bite and volume.

[David Potts]

It's the old trade-off between bow speed/length, weight and contact point. My starting place is,"What sort of sound do I want to make - musical or unmusical?" For me the fastest, loudest sounds are bowed "on the string" with no release.

According to Tom Martin, there are passages to play musically and there are passages that have to be heard (by sacrificing tone for a harsher, more crushed sound to cut through).

If I go with the musical sound my contact point on middle strings is probably near 15 cm from the bridge for lower positions, closer on the G string and nearer the fingerboard on the E string. I am watching the string movements closely and listening for a clear full warmer "bass" tone that resonates and projects. For a tougher, less musical, more penetrating sound it is probably more like 10cm, etc. Any closer and the string stiffens, sound becomes too harsh and glassy, tone is lost, response of the string to the bow becomes slower and articulation becomes blurred. Of course, this is my bass. Yours may be more or less forgiving!!

Then I trade off whereabouts on the bow, bow lengths and weight against note lengths and speed, all the time listening and watching carefully until I get the sound, dynamic and clarity of articulation I want. When bowing "hard on the string" ( no release of weight) with constant bow speed there is a (small) range of bow lengths that will grab the string cleanly with each change of direction and produce a musical sound. If I use too much bow it will skid and lose control of tone and note starts. If I use too little bow the sound and tone will be crushed. What helps keep the sound musical is that the belly (table) never stops vibrating which helps mask the mechanical sounds of note starts and stops.

A useful experiment? Choose a contact point and find the tempo/bow speed/weight combination that lets you play whole bows "on the string" with constant weight, no lift at each end, clean note starts and good tone and projection. Gradually play shorter faster notes of the same quality and clarity by shrinking the length as the bow moves faster. You can decide where on the stick you wish to contract towards - the balance point is a great place. Then expand the bow movements again to whole bows as you slow down again. Keep watching and listening. This experiment also works well for controlling crescendo/diminuendo if you add/subtract weight at the same time.

I believe that bending the hair over the string by relaxed weight (not pressing) when bowing "on the string" can produce a rich earthy sound that caps off some of the brightest overtones, controls the strings but still allows them to move freely. For crescendos I gradually add a little more weight as the bow accelerates to ensure that the bow doesn't skid and remains hooked onto the sound as the string amplitude grows, ie the string goes with the bow. With care the sound grows and projects out of the bass from a whisper to a roar without being crushed back into it by too much pressure. The reverse process of lightening weight as you decelerate returns the sound to a whisper, still in control of tone and volume. There are six little (solfege) exercises to practice using alternate down/up bows -
(1) Down bow loud-to-soft, up bow loud-to-soft
(2) Down soft-to-loud, Up soft-to-loud
(3) Down loud-to-soft, Up soft-to-loud
(4) Down soft-to-loud, Up loud-to-soft
(5) In each bow, Down soft-loud-soft, Up soft-loud-soft
(6) In each bow, Down loud-soft-loud, Up loud-soft-loud
These help make you very aware of how the player/bow/string relationship works as you examine the three basic variables, Bow Speed/Length, Weight and Contact Point


Some other experiments to consider? The amplitude of movement widens as the contact point moves away from the bridge and requires a faster and faster bow speed to support power and projection? Also bow speed must increase as you shorten each string and vibrations become faster? And in the same position bow lengths/speeds contract across strings, from longer/faster on G string to less than half and slower on E string in order to produce the same tone, clarity of articulation and projection?

Playing fast and loud "off" the string is another whole topic for future discussion?

What think ye, merry gentlemen?

Regards

DP

[Felessan]

Wonderful response, David. That will give us all plenty to think about!

Why don't we address playing off the string here, too, since you brought it up, and it's part of the topic.

Any more thoughts, opinions, methods from David or others?

-Trevor

[David Potts]

Thanks Felessan.

My head's buzzing after only four hours sleep!! I need a bit more time to get my thoughts in order about fast-loud-off. I'll come back in a few day's time!

DP

[David Potts]

Back again!

I have never tried to develop fast-loud-truly off string playing beyond eighth notes at, say, MM = about 152. As a French bow player my instincts say that German bow might produce these notes faster and more cleanly with greater power than I can. At that speed I have reached the limit of being able to pound the bow down in a "vee" into the string either at or inside the balance point of the bow stick, close to the frog. This style I might use for repeated loud eighth notes in say Haydn-Mozart-Beethoven, especially on the E string with only one string beside it. I pick the place on the bow hair to tie in with the increased stiffness of the string by moving contact point gradually closer to the bridge. I listen and watch to gouge the cleanest loudest sound, sometimes with a rather stiff arm bowing from the shoulder.

If I want to play faster and louder with clear articulation I find I quickly get back through jogging "semi-off" towards being "hard on the string". "On-string" bowing is the only style that works at any speed or dynamic. For every other style of bowing there is a speed band and dynamic range where it works best. Sautille (semi-off) works for fast speeds and softer dynamics near the middle of the bow. Moving towards the balance point suits Spiccato with its own effective speed range. A shallow carried bounce that suits warmer Haydn-Mozart sounds happens best around the balance point and can be louder but more limited in speed. The heaviest most powerful bounce (or gouge) is between the balance point and the frog, where the weight of the stick helps you bury the bow into the string.

Again, watch and listen as you experiment.

DP

[hamata]

I would think that it may depend on the character of your bass. I'd hate to hear someone with a bright bass playing in orchestra down by the bridge but that's just me.

I like more of a cushion of oomph sound that'll rattle teeth but there are certainly times that more bite is needed so the bow will stray down more. I like it close enough to the bridge to give it some clarity but not so close that the rumble is compromised.

[BMason]

It's a myriad of things coming together: where and how high the bass is placed, what angle in relation to the body, bow technique, tightness of bow hair, etc. There's really no easy answer that you'll find in a bass forum. Ask your teacher for some tweaks, obtain Hal Robinson's Strokin' (or any other Sevcik style bowing method), and practice slowly and diligently. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by BMason

It's a myriad of things coming together: where and how high the bass is placed, what angle in relation to the body, bow technique, tightness of bow hair, etc. There's really no easy answer that you'll find in a bass forum. Ask your teacher for some tweaks, obtain Hal Robinson's Strokin' (or any other Sevcik style bowing method), and practice slowly and diligently. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

Lather, rinse, and repeat...hope you don't drop the soap!

[BMason]

Soap technique work could also be of use; hawaiian lava rock soap obviously has a rougher texture, but I find that the extra friction very helpful in keeping a relaxed soap hand. For beginners I recommend soap on a rope. In any case, however, soap is not helpful for fast, loud articulations. That's going to take a few rigorous swipes of Pops.

[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by BMason

Soap technique work could also be of use; hawaiian lava rock soap obviously has a rougher texture, but I find that the extra friction very helpful in keeping a relaxed soap hand. For beginners I recommend soap on a rope. In any case, however, soap is not helpful for fast, loud articulations. That's going to take a few rigorous swipes of Pops.

You're forgetting the standard Luffa technique, that also contributes well to sound production.

[futurebass77]

try oak rosin

[slinkycheeseman]

I prefer a slow, high pressure stroke near the fingerboard for slower louder passages, for softer faster passages i prefer a fast high pressure stroke bordering on ponticello (That's what my teacher says). The stroke should always come from off the string (a cm or 2) and should never start from on the string (That's what my teacher says).

Remember to use lots of rosin (at least 7 high pressure strokes from tip to frog) and also the more tension in your hand, the more powerful, articulate, and fast the stroke will be. The stroke should come from the lower body. Your welcome in advance, and you owe me $10 USD. You can pay me after you win Atlanta.

PS It also helps to put rosin directly on the string for these difficult strokes ( at least 3 high pressure strokes on each string)