Various Techniques

[TomGale]

I an curious as to which, of the various techniques available, do you use when meeting any variety of musical challenges - the Simandl 1,2,4 being a "gimmie".
Tom Gale

[Cory Palmer]

Are you meaning just left hand techniques?

[TomGale]

Yes - that's a good start.
TG

[Cory Palmer]

Right now I use a combination of Simandl type fingerings(1,2,4) and pivoting. I got the Eugene Levinson "School of Agility" book and started learning how to use the third finger in lower positions. I have stopped using it for the time being because I have been taking festival and grad school auditions but will start working with it again once these auditions are over.

I also use similar fingerings to what Oscar Zimmerman uses in his complete orchestra part books.

Since I started studying with John Hood I've been using my thumb in lower position. I used to go only as low as the G harmonic now I go as far back as the E. I also use 4th finger a little higher but not too often. Sometimes I'll do the double stops at the end of the 1st mvt of the Koussevitzky Concerto with 4th finger.

I use Petracchi type fingerings in thumb position (chromatic, semichromatic, and diatonic). Chromatic being all half steps between each finger. Semichromatic is a whole step between thumb and 1 and half steps between the other fingers. Diatonic is a whole step between thumb and 1 and between 1 and 2 and a half step between 2 and 3.

[TomGale]

Anybody else use anything different?
Tom Gale

[mcnaire2004]

Nope, I use standard 1-2-4 and +-1-2-3 fingerings. I would try the third finger but I play a 7/8 bass which maybe a tad big for my hands (3/4 is a tad small). It wouldn't be a pretty stretch in lower positions.

You know what I always wanted to know??? How the Bottesini method books aproach the bass.

[Stan Haskins]

I find a four finger technique in 4th position and above (ala Gary Karr's method) to come in very handy - for instance, Eccles (2nd mvmt)
F(gstr) - C Bb A Bb(dstr) is alot easier to take with an extended hand (I suppose a pivot would work too, though).

Same piece: the 4th mvmt requires a "moveable " thumb position - using your thumb below the octave harmonic - very necessary for Bach cello suites, too . . .

Another alteration to the Simandl which also comes in handy is using third finger below the octave - helps alot with string crossings and double stops - e.g. playing down a fourth across strings in 4th or 5th position is easier when you use 3-2 instead of 4-2, or "hopping" down 4-4

Also, I think there's a note in the Simandl book 2 somewhere about the use of the third finger in thumb position - it's used more today than in Simandl's time.

Oh, and how about producing vibrato with only one finger down? (Again, a la Karr, and the anti-Tim Cobb technique - no offense meant to Mr. Cobb, who I'm sure doesn't have time for this board anyway, but I can't produce a wide vibrato with all my fingers down)

This is a good question . . . I'm interested in seeing some other answers . . .

[Stan Haskins]

btw, Tom, didn't you write a method yourself? Care to contribute some of your "altered" techniques?

[Stan Haskins]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

I use Petracchi type fingerings in thumb position (chromatic, semichromatic, and diatonic). Chromatic being all half steps between each finger. Semichromatic is a whole step between thumb and 1 and half steps between the other fingers. Diatonic is a whole step between thumb and 1 and between 1 and 2 and a half step between 2 and 3.

Cory - this isn't really different from Simandl book 2, is it? He starts with the same three postions, plus the same idea with the thumb on the F#, if I'm not mistaken .. . I'm curious about the Petracchi method, but I haven't seen it yet.

Sorry about posting so many responses this thread got me thinking . . .

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

Cory - this isn't really different from Simandl book 2, is it? He starts with the same three postions, plus the same idea with the thumb on the F#, if I'm not mistaken .. . I'm curious about the Petracchi method, but I haven't seen it yet.

Sorry about posting so many responses this thread got me thinking . . .

I've never looked at Simandl book 2. I only have book 1.

[TomGale]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

btw, Tom, didn't you write a method yourself? Care to contribute some of your "altered" techniques?

OK. I use the standard 1,2,4 (I call that the "closed hand" tech) with 1/2 step pivots to extend the range. I also use the 4 finger tech (I call that the "open hand" tech) with 1/2 step pivots. I can use that down to 1st finger on C (G string) and higher. I also use the thumb positions below the octave - down to about E and once in awhile Eb. Over the last 7 years or so, I use MUCH more of just the 1st and 2nd fingers in lyrical passages - hardly any 4ths and always vibrate on one finger.
My Technical Foundations - vol 1 covers the open hand tech w/pivots.
Vol 2 covers the thumb positions - above and below the octave - and combines the thumb pos., open and closed hand positions with etudes which have you moving from one tech. to another. You can get a longer description at ASODB.com and click on "shop"
Thank you for asking. I believe the more skills you come to the music stand with, the better you will do musically - not to mention kicking butt at your auditions!
Tom Gale

[Stan Haskins]

You may have just made a sale, my friend . . . sounds like your books "dovetqail" pretty nicely with what I'm trying to do.

Now, how to get my wife to let me buy more books . . . .

[TomGale]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

Now, how to get my wife to let me buy more books . . . .

Play her a ballad (using only the 1st and 2nd fingers) and dinner out usually works.
TG

[jdapodaca]

Below the 1st finger on D on the G string, I generally use Simandlish 124 and pivoting, mostly a half step pivot and sometimes a whole step pivot when necesary. I can't think of a situation recently that I've needed to pivot more than a half step below this position.

I've also recently tried using 3rd finger in the lower positions. I find it really useful when I am playing 4ths, across strings, to use 2nd finger on the lower note and 3rd finger right across on the upper note, say, 2nd finger on B on the A string and 3rd finger on E on the D string. This is most helpful when I would need to play the leading tone to either notes, say A# or D#, for which I use 1st finger, and 4th finger for the half step right above it (C or F.) This requires your hand to be in a kind of funny position, but that's what I do.

I've also started trying to cover, between D on the G string, and the F#, all notes between with a finger. So, +1234 for D, Eb, E, F and F#. I've only been doing this during my sort of "post-warm-up" warm-up. I haven't found any real situations when I need to use this fingering, but I'm warming up with it across all of the strings. It's difficult on the A and E strings.

Beyond the G harmonic I almost always use +123, but in Bottesini B minor Concerto, on the first 16th note D major run, I play E, F#, G#, A (on the D string) with +123, and use my 4th finger for the D across the A. This works well as it sets up 321 for the C Bb A. I've also played the double stops at the end of Kouss 1st mvt. with 4th finger in the practice room, but it usually ends up being 3rd finger in "real life."

[TomGale]

A lot of bassists are reading but few are posting what they use. I think the closed hand (1,2,4 = 1 full step) with a 1/2 step pivot to increase the range of the figure (if needed) is the first level. Then comes the open hand tech (Gary Karr, 1,2,3,4. etc.) and then the pivot is added to that to solve even more musical challenges. Using the in the thumb positions below the octave but not limited to T , 1 (full step), 2 (full step), 3 half step) etc is standard BUT there are variations within that thumb position. How about G-T, A-1 , Bb-2, C-3? or G-T, Ab-1, Bb-2- and C- 3?
Now, go play 'Danny Boy' using JUST the 1st and 2nd fingers. It makes chicks hot.....
Tom Gale

[mcnaire2004]

Originally Posted by TomGale

A lot of bassists are reading but few are posting what they use. I think the closed hand (1,2,4 = 1 full step) with a 1/2 step pivot to increase the range of the figure (if needed) is the first level. Then comes the open hand tech (Gary Karr, 1,2,3,4. etc.) and then the pivot is added to that to solve even more musical challenges. Using the in the thumb positions below the octave but not limited to T , 1 (full step), 2 (full step), 3 half step) etc is standard BUT there are variations within that thumb position. How about G-T, A-1 , Bb-2, C-3? or G-T, Ab-1, Bb-2- and C- 3?
Now, go play 'Danny Boy' using JUST the 1st and 2nd fingers. It makes chicks hot.....
Tom Gale

If I am not mistaken thats basically Simandl. His books teach 1,2,4 and then 1,2,3 when you get down past D (on the G string) and it has a note about using thumb in that area after you master 1,2,3. Basically you are just adding the 4th finger in that area and lowering it a little bit. Personally some situations call for using the thumb below the harmonic. I do it all the time (kinda). Usually the thumb is better used going up (rarely coming down) especially when starting below E or even C. (C is the lowest point I can imagine using the thumb)

Personally I would love (if I had any money) to purchase yours and Dr. Morton's book. From what I read Dr. Morton is a fan of simandl but sort of expands on it. Personally I'd like to but the Your books, Bottesini's books, all the Simandl Books ( I only have 2), The Dr. Morton Books, and the Gary Karr books. Just to combine ideas and fingering methods. I personally would love for Edgar Meyer to write a book.

Edit: wow I use the term "personally" allot. Sorry to any readers.

[TomGale]

Mark calls his approach, "Simandl Plus!". It's our "Triangulation of Fingering Systems" - open, closed and thumb (above and below) which is the foundation of the American School of Double Bass. You can check it out at ASODB.com. Lots of FREE downloads. Unfortunately, most bass players don't have the income of an alto sax player...
TG