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#21
11-08-2012, 04:00 PM
 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: West of Stumptown, USA
How many times must I admit wr wr wrongness and stand corrected?

Just so I know for sure, would the 24th (or 25th if capoed) also be an exact note or would it be off?

#22
11-08-2012, 04:33 PM
 Registered User Join Date: May 2011
Ok, you're good

To be fair, if you are talking about trying to use an actual 32.000" physical scale length
starting at the 1st fret on a 34" neck, then you're right, it won't work.

But the nut (or capo) is being placed exactly at the 1st fret. And since nothing else is
changing, the actual new scale length of 32.092 must be used.

24th and 25th will be correct also.

I'll put numbers up using the calculator - stand by -

Ok, according to the stewmac calculator, for a 34" scale:

the 24th fret is 25.500" from the nut
the 25th fret is 25.977" from the nut

Again, if we cut 1.908" off the nut end of the fretboard and move the nut
up to where the 1st fret was, the 25th fret would now be 24.069" from the
"new" nut (25.977 - 1.908) and the 25th fret would now be the "new" 24th
fret.

Checking the stewmac calculator again with a 32.092" scale, we get:

24th fret - 24.069" from the nut

Still works.

Possibly, an easier way to see why it works is to consider that the interval
between the open string (0 fret) and 12th fret is one ovtave.
The interval between the 1st fret and the 13th fret is one octave.
The interval between the 2nd fret and the 14th fret is one octave.
The interval between the 3rd fret and the 15th fret is one octave.
etc.

So when any fret is made into the new nut (or 0 fret), there will be a new
12th fret that is still exactly one octave higher.

edited to add this:
Forgot to mention that the fretoard itself does not actually move;
just the position of the nut or 0 fret.

Last edited by megafiddle : 11-08-2012 at 08:42 PM.
#23
11-08-2012, 07:03 PM
 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Westchester County NY
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Immigrant How many times must I admit wr wr wrongness and stand corrected?.
"How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky?"

(with apologies to Irving Berlin)
#24
11-08-2012, 07:14 PM
 Registered User Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Immigrant The capo idea is OK to find out what a 32" five feels like, but it'll never be completely in tune. Will intonation be possible at 12 ( or is it 13)? No. It's mathematically impossible to turn a 34 into a 32 by capo-ing fret one. Does anyone have a 34" whose first fret measures exactly 2" from nut to fret? No. It's 1.908 inches. Those tenths and hundredths of inches add up to not in tune land.
Garbage. I have a song in my jazz band that is in Eb and has the typical 1 - b3-n3 - 5 - 65 pattern. I'll be damned if I'm going to stretch for nothing and lose the groove. I capo up a fret and play it on "open" strings. My bass is perfectly in tune. And it's a fanned fret instrument at that.

You don't worry about "exactly" two inches. you just play off the first fret, wherever it is.

The mathematical formula is 2^1/12, or approximately 1.0594631 as the proportion from fret to fret for any given scale length. So, doing the math, 34 / 2^1/12 is, as posted above, @ 32.092. So go with it.

When I figured out the fret placements for both my fanned fret bass (34 & 33.25) and my fanned fret guitar (24.875 & 24.625) I got out my trust TI-30 calculator from my high school days and did every fret myself with the dual coordinates needed for a fanned fret instrument. Here's the bass:
A Different Custom P-style Bass

Last edited by iiipopes : 11-08-2012 at 07:19 PM.
#25
11-08-2012, 09:24 PM
 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: West of Stumptown, USA
Quote:
 Originally Posted by iiipopes Garbage. I have a song in my jazz band that is in Eb and has the typical 1 - b3-n3 - 5 - 65 pattern. I'll be damned if I'm going to stretch for nothing and lose the groove. I capo up a fret and play it on "open" strings. My bass is perfectly in tune. And it's a fanned fret instrument at that. You don't worry about "exactly" two inches. you just play off the first fret, wherever it is. The mathematical formula is 2^1/12, or approximately 1.0594631 as the proportion from fret to fret for any given scale length. So, doing the math, 34 / 2^1/12 is, as posted above, @ 32.092. So go with it. When I figured out the fret placements for both my fanned fret bass (34 & 33.25) and my fanned fret guitar (24.875 & 24.625) I got out my trust TI-30 calculator from my high school days and did every fret myself with the dual coordinates needed for a fanned fret instrument. Here's the bass: A Different Custom P-style Bass
For the third time- I admit that I'm wrong. But if anyone else wants to correct me again before reading to the end of the thread, it's totally OK with me. I'm able to handle the shame of being incorrect as its not the first time and won't be the last unless I fall into an elevator shaft, then that will be the last.

Cheezas Krast! Whatever it takes, I guess.
#26
11-08-2012, 10:18 PM
 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canadia
LOL! Immigrant, you got wide shoulders buddy, way to bear the weight...
#27
11-08-2012, 10:21 PM
 Registered User Owner/Builder: HJC Customs USA, The Cool Lute, C G O Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Southwest Michigan
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Immigrant How many times must I admit wr wr wrongness and stand corrected? Just so I know for sure, would the 24th (or 25th if capoed) also be an exact note or would it be off? Thanks in advance.
Yes, the 25th if there would still be a note.

The act of capoing at the 1st fret of a 34" scale neck is the same as moving the nut forward, (must be retuned so the 1st fret notes will be the natural tuning), making the fret in front of the Capo acting as the nut, and all frets past that act as 1-2-3-etc.
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#28
11-08-2012, 10:31 PM
 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: West of Stumptown, USA
Thank you.

I gotta admit, I'm a little disappointed nobody caught the Fonzie reference in post #21.

So, I've got an Orpheum banjo from 1915. If I capo the 8th fret, can I play ukulele stuff on it?

#29
11-08-2012, 10:33 PM
 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canadia
See, I missed that reference, because the real Fonz would never have been able to bring himself to actually say wr...wr...wr... you know what I mean...

And yes, rock out on that ancient uke fraud...
#30
11-09-2012, 07:42 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: West of Stumptown, USA
Glad you caught it!

I know it's way off topic, but I thought you guys would appreciate the pretty wood and carving on this.

#31
11-09-2012, 07:47 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: NWOhio
that is georgeous!
#32
11-09-2012, 08:02 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Westchester County NY
Birdseye banjo! way cool.
#33
01-17-2013, 07:50 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: NWOhio
put the converted now 32 inch - previously 34 inch neck back on the bass last night - plays great!
i'll post some pictures of that new zero fret neck up over the weekend - but it definitely works to convert a 34 neck to 32 in this manner!
#34
01-18-2013, 07:13 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: NWOhio
that's what the new "nut" looks like that has turned my former 1st fret into a zero fret - leaving me with an almost exactly 32 inch neck.
Attached Thumbnails

#35
01-18-2013, 07:41 AM
 Registered BadAss Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: MS Gulf Coast
Very cool! Such a simple solution...
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#36
01-18-2013, 08:35 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Amsterdam
Are you going to adjust the position of the pickup's too?
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#37
01-18-2013, 08:49 AM
 Don't ask me why, I don't know....... Luthier: Rickett Customs Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Southern Maryland
Lemme get this straight..........

You want to take a 34" scale bass and make it 32" by more or less by starting at the first fret?

As long as the bridge remains at 34" scale position and the neck is a 34" scale as well, this will work. if you have any dots or inlays, they will be null at this point.
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Last edited by Rickett Customs : 01-18-2013 at 08:51 AM.
#38
01-18-2013, 08:49 AM
 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Neenah, WI
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Matthijs Are you going to adjust the position of the pickup's too?
That would be pretty unnecessary.
Do you adjust the pickup position when you fret a note?
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Last edited by F-Clef-Jef : 01-18-2013 at 08:57 AM.
#39
01-18-2013, 09:10 AM
 Registered BadAss Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: MS Gulf Coast
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rickett Customs if you have any dots or inlays, they will be null at this point.
Very true. Do you find this bothersome, mormoyboy? I myself use the side dots all the time, but never the fingerboard dots. So this would drive me a little bit nuts!
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Todd
Tobias/ThumpyHollow/ThunderStick/PurpleBeast/RayBird/PentaBird/OctoBird/4620 | SansAmp | QSC | BFM
#40
01-18-2013, 09:17 AM
 Supporting Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado
Peavey makes a cheap 32" scale 5 string bass.
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