35" Scale question

MAJORdorMo · #1 06-12-2008, 01:01 PM

http://mimf.com/library/moll_bass_final.gif
I just got those plans in, and the 5 string neck is 34" scale.
To make it a 35" scale, would i just move the bridge up an inch, or do I need to change the fretboard's dimensions?

mikezimmerman · #2 06-12-2008, 01:07 PM

You need to change the fret spacing and fretboard dimensions. Remember that the distance from the nut to the 12th fret is 1/2" longer, and the distance from the 12th to the 24th fret is 1/4" longer...

Mike

MAJORdorMo · #3 06-12-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikezimmerman

You need to change the fret spacing and fretboard dimensions. Remember that the distance from the nut to the 12th fret is 1/2" longer, and the distance from the 12th to the 24th fret is 1/4" longer...

Mike

Thanks for the info!
I want to avoid doing that, so would a 34" 5 string be ok, or would the B be too floppy?

mikezimmerman · #4 06-12-2008, 01:22 PM

There are many 34" 5's with good B strings, but I can obviously make no guarantees about how yours will turn out...

Mike

MAJORdorMo · #5 06-12-2008, 01:27 PM

I'll suppose I'll try with a 34" scale.
Thanks!

erikbojerik · #6 06-12-2008, 04:38 PM

....or return the MIMF plans and get what you paid for.

[rant]
NO COMPROMISES!!! Talking yourself into a compromise before you even start the build is (IMO) the first step down the road to an instrument that you may be less-than-satisfied with. Never ever settle for "eh...that looks good *enough*"

If you want 35".....demand the right plans!
[/rant]

SDB Guitars · #7 06-12-2008, 05:52 PM

Does the MIMF have the plans with a 35" scale? I don't think they do... but at any rate, you should *always* look at a set of plans as a "guideline". They are never 100% to scale.

Do you want it to be 35" scale? Then make it so, and adjust the measurements necessary to do so (length of neck). So, you'd be adding ~.75" to the length of the neck. Big deal. You just adjust the plans to suit your individuality. The body would be the same, it's just that the neck would be .75" longer, and the bridge would be .25" further back on the body.

MAJORdorMo · #8 06-12-2008, 09:18 PM

You guys tell me after I realize the benefits of a 34" scale

I am now wanting a 34" scale because many people have reported having a difficult time adjusting to the extra inch.
Since the only local music store only has 4 strings, I don't wanna risk having a bass I can't play comfortably.

SDB Guitars · #9 06-12-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAJORdorMo

You guys tell me after I realize the benefits of a 34" scale

I am now wanting a 34" scale because many people have reported having a difficult time adjusting to the extra inch.
Since the only local music store only has 4 strings, I don't wanna risk having a bass I can't play comfortably.

There is no overall "benefit" to 34" scale, any more than there is a "benefit" to 32" or 35" or 38" scale... there are only *differences*... the longer the scale, the more tension is required to tune up to a specific pitch. Therefore, a 35" 5-string will have higher tension for a given note, when using the same gauge strings as a shorter scale.

For 5 string, I would probably go 35", the difference is a total of 1" spread across the entire scale, or to better describe it, .5" spread from the nut to the 12th fret. *Not* that much difference to play on.

Mikey R · #10 06-13-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDB Guitars

For 5 string, I would probably go 35", the difference is a total of 1" spread across the entire scale, or to better describe it, .5" spread from the nut to the 12th fret. *Not* that much difference to play on.

the biggest difference i would guess would be if youre playing a C major scale. on a 34 inch scale you would be stretching your hand 4.819 inches, on a 35 inch scale that stretch would be 4.961 inches, a difference of only 0.142 inches.

or 3.6 mm if youre in europe.

SDB Guitars · #11 06-13-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey R

the biggest difference i would guess would be if youre playing a C major scale. on a 34 inch scale you would be stretching your hand 4.819 inches, on a 35 inch scale that stretch would be 4.961 inches, a difference of only 0.142 inches.

or 3.6 mm if youre in europe.

Yeah, that extra ~1/8" really kills some people.

On the other hand, that is only assuming you play "properly" and stretch your hand across 4 frets without moving your wrist. I am a reasonably ineffecient player, and never took lessons, so I always seem to move my wrist, and I almost never make a stretch of over 3 frets. Yeah, that's bad, I know...

Mikey R · #12 06-13-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDB Guitars

Yeah, that extra ~1/8" really kills some people.

i find the long 5ers combined with wider string spacing, like 19mm, are the ones that cause me the problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDB Guitars

On the other hand, that is only assuming you play "properly" and stretch your hand across 4 frets without moving your wrist.

on a 5er, you can normally play the same riff as on a 4 but one string down and 5 frets up

MAJORdorMo · #13 06-14-2008, 12:28 PM

Would making the bass string-through make the B tighter?

PB+J · #14 06-14-2008, 12:45 PM

No--the tension of the string is not affected by making it a string-thru bass. If the string tension were increased by making it string-thru, it would also be increased, by, say, leaving all the extra string wound on the peghead. What matter sis the length of the string between the nut and the saddle

Some people think the strings feel different with a string thru bass, but I never noticed a difference. String tension is a function of the mass of the string and the scale length. String "feel" is a function of the mass of the string and the construction method

I've been playing a Dingwall V for year now and I love it. But I used to have a 34 scale fender deluxe V that was an excellent bass. There's no reason a 34 scale low B can't be perfectly good--it depends on the bass, on your playing style, on the strings, etc.

If you make the MIMF Moll plans bass in to a 35 inch scale you'll have to refigure the fret placement

MAJORdorMo · #15 06-14-2008, 01:05 PM

I want the 35" scale to be a last resort.

You said there is no reason a 34" can't have a good low B. Is there a "trick" to make it tight (like action, nut material, bridge, etc)?

PB+J · #16 06-14-2008, 01:34 PM

I've built three basses from scratch and assembled a bunch of other ones and owned a bunch more. The one thing I've concluded is that it's practically impossible to tell what a bass is going to sound like based on the materials it's made from or the design/construction method. A lot of people disagree, but that's been my experience.

If I were you I'd go to guitar center and try as many fives as you can, and see what you tend to like. Try them unplugged and see how they sound/feel. It's just really hard to generalize. Some people like short scale basses. Some people find that the 35 scale is great for the low B but makes the G and the D feel too tight. Some people can't sand short scale basses--i never feel comfortable on them, but a friend of min sound great on 30 inch scale..

Changing the tension changes how the string "speaks." It's a big reason why Martin 25.5 scale acoustic sound different from Gibson acoustics or fender guitars sound and feel different from Gibsons. The advantage of the Dingwall, for me, is that the varied string scale makes the strings all feel the same--with most fives, the B feels pretty drastically different from the G no matter what the scale length

I used to spend a lot of time on the MIMF and I looked hard at the Moll bass plan. It's a really nice looking design. Over time I've usually ended up liking bolt neck basses that are very light and resonant. But it all changes when you change strings.

The only way to learn is just to do it. I don't build instruments any more, because I just decided it was better to leave it to people doing it full time. But I learned a ton and had a lot of fun.

Florida Jim · #17 06-26-2008, 06:56 AM

I'm building a 35" scale 5 string bass. So, there is more tension on this scale than a 34" for the same pitch? Would it be better then to use lighter gage strings on a 35"?

mikezimmerman · #18 06-26-2008, 07:40 AM

Yes, for the same set of strings, a 35" scale will have more tension tuned to the same pitch that a 34" scale. That doesn't necessarily mean it would be "better" to use lighter strings--the higher tension is what some people are looking for when they go to a 35" scale.

Mike

GreyBeard · #19 06-26-2008, 07:50 AM

I've owned both 34's and 35's. Your wrist is at a sharper angle in 1st pos with a 35 than a 34 and the finger spread is a longer stretch to boot. I have really small hands but I adjusted. After getting use to a 35 a 34 feels like a toy. I eventually went back to all 34's but would not hesitate to go with another 35 if one came available.

MAJORdorMo · #20 06-26-2008, 03:49 PM

I decided to man up and make a 35" scale.

Does anyone know how far the nut is from the 3, 5th, 7, 9, 12, 15, 17, 19, 21, and 24th fret?