Anybody use a Router template guide kit?

[rumblinbass]

I am slowly getting a collection of tools together. So I went to Home Depot to look for a couple router template follower router bits and a forstner bit. Due to gift cards I'm limited to Home Depot.

Anyways, I was not able to find any template follower bits but I did find a template guide kit. Except the one in the store was Porter Cable.

Has anybody used them? Any feedback?
I know it would probably just be better (cheaper?) to get a template follower bit, but like I said, I'm kind of limited to Home Depot...and they didn't have any template follower bits.

[rumblinbass]

sorry that link didn't really work...

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...glm.0&MID=9876


EDIT:

ok, well neither did this one. hopefully you know what I'm talking about.

[spudmaster34]

I tried using a cheap router guide thing from sears, the bit ended up routing the guide, it was a mess

[rumblinbass]

Originally Posted by spudmaster34

I tried using a cheap router guide thing from sears, the bit ended up routing the guide, it was a mess

ok...well I guess that answers that question.

[klocwerk]

I appreciate the gift-card thing, but there's really nothing as good as a template following bit.
Two preferably, one with a bearing on top, one on the bottom.

[Foamy]

I am understanding this thread talking about two different things for different purposes. There are the pattern bits; they are straight-cutting bits of differing lengths with a bearing at either end. Both are needed for different types of cuts.
Then there is the guide bushing/template sets that come with an assortment of bushings of differing radii and are generally used with regular straight-cutting bits.
If you are trying to follow a pattern for, say, a bass body, you would use the former. You may want to use one of these also to rout a pickup hole. Although, for a pickup, you may have an oversized guide and use the latter type of set.
What is it exactly that you want to do? With that, we can tell you which is better, and maybe give you more suggestions.

[edit]
At homedepot.com, here are the 2 pattern bits:
Model 2880106
Model 2880093
However, these are 1/4" shanks which I very much DO NOT recommend if you have a router that can accommodate 1/2" shanked bits.

[rumblinbass]

I am looking for bits to route pickup and control cavities, neck sockets, and for clean up after rough-cuts.

I was looking for template follower bits, preferably with a 1/2" or larger shank. That is when I ran into the current situation.

I am planning on building a Jazz bass from plans drawn by Jason Lollar I bought from MIMF (with a couple minor modifications...personal preferences).

Judging from the responses I am getting so far I am leaning towards holding on to the gift cards and putting them towards another tool (perhaps a bandsaw or a jointer).

[FBB Custom]

There are several kinds of bits with bearings. The main two are the pattern following (bearing above cutter) and flush cut (bearing on end of bit, below cutter). Pattern following is what people use to make a recess into wood using a template that is the exact size of the cavity to be cut. If you are using Stew-Mac templates, you need a pattern bit. Example:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnate-7601-P...4?ie=UTF8&s=hi

One problem with this bit is the flutes are 1" long which means you have to have the bit (1"-the template thickness) into the wood to follow a pattern placed directly on the wood. Shorter bits are much better for starting a cut. Another problem with this bit is the diameter is 1/2" so the corner radius is 1/4", which is > the radius of most pickups, which means you'll need to touch up the corners of your pickup routes if you use a 1/2" diameter pattern bit. Bits appropriate for shallow cuts/tighter radii are available from Stew-Mac, and I highly recommend you buy these bits or equivalent.

Flush cut bits are useful but obviously the template/pattern has to be on the bottom of the workpiece so they are useless for cutting cavities.

Both types of bit are subject to bearing failure. I have not had a bearing fail/ride up the shank, but it does happen, and usually means you lose some work. A natural progression for many builders is to use a pattern bit for everything, have one fail, then start using template guides (see below) where possible.

Template guides essentially provide the same function as pattern bits, without the bearing. You can also use any straight bit with a template guide, down to 1/8" if you are careful, or up to 3/4" for faster removal. These systems are designed for the bit to operate inside the inside diameter, meaning that the cut you get will be smaller (inside cut) or larger (outside cut) than the template you are using. This usually means you will make (or have made for you) over- or under-sized templates.

The template guide setup is superior to pattern bits where you can get (or make) proper templates. I use both, but my preference is to use the guides.

[rumblinbass]

Originally Posted by FBB Custom

These systems are designed for the bit to operate inside the inside diameter, meaning that the cut you get will be smaller (inside cut) or larger (outside cut) than the template you are using. This usually means you will make (or have made for you) over- or under-sized templates.

The template guide setup is superior to pattern bits where you can get (or make) proper templates. I use both, but my preference is to use the guides.

Good to know. Thank you. Since this will be my first attempt I should probable stick with template follower bits. I'm not sure at this point I want to contend with under/over-sized templates.

[Ray Holt]

FBB pretty much nailed it on the head. I used a top-bearing bit to cut out my control cavity, and on my latest build I even used it to cut out the shape of my body. But, I use the template guides (I usually heard them called collar-cut) on the pickups, because you can get a smaller radius and the pickups will just drop right in.

One of the biggest things to remember with follower bits is to keep the bearing lubed up and make sure it's moving!

[wilser]

I recently switched to using template guides for making pickup covers and routing pickup holes. I find this method very effective and allows me to use a downcut spiral bit for cleaner edges, not to mention what Matt said about the edges of the pickups. Plus no danger of the bearing coming loose while you're routing (which has happened to me a couple of times), so if you're using the pattern bits, make sure you regularly check the set screw to make sure it's tight.

[Suburban]

I use router bits for metal, 6mm spiral cut. There's no way to accommodate bearings to these, since the shank is the same diameter as the cutters. OTOH, the shank works fine as guide!
This method works cery well, but there is of course one or two drawbacks:
1) If you move too slow, you burn the template
2) The cutting length available will probably not be enough for a clean cut in one pass. For a 2" body, I have to go twice - the second time with the newly cut surface as template, cf. problem 1 above...

But it works, and the cut surface is lovely! Barely need to sand - well, if the fibres didn't rise, anyway.

[rumblinbass]

wow, thanks for all the responses...definitely gives me some things to think about.

[Scott French]

Ditto on Matt and Wilser's comments. I switched over to these recently as well. I've been using it for almost everything, pickup routes, hollowbodies, even trussrod slots. Getting the offset math right is the only real stumbling block.

[pilotjones]

Wow, this makes me think about pin routers: by changing the size of the pin (or the cutter), you could choose to under-, even-, or over- cut with respect to your template. I guess the major disadvantage would be the template being hidden from view while you work, though. (That and the cost.)

[rumblinbass]

Thanks for all the responses. It looks as though the template guide kit could work well. Which is somewhat of an added benefit since you don't have to spend the extra money on bits with bearings, you can use a regular bit.

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by rumblinbass

Thanks for all the responses. It looks as though the template guide kit could work well. Which is somewhat of an added benefit since you don't have to spend the extra money on bits with bearings, you can use a regular bit.

One more note here....
Previously, FBB mentioned the use of a straight fluted bit. These are WONDERFUL bits, but... There are 2 flavors: upcutting and downcutting. You need to get the proper one for your application. This is so the waste is removed the proper direction for the application.
I'm assuming you're going to use it in a hand-held router....
An upcutting bit will bring the waste up and out of the hole, but at the expense of maybe slightly rougher edges (but not really bad). A downcutting bit will tend to have a cleaner edge, at the expense of the hole being filled with the waste as you go. That can possibly be a pain.
Maybe someone can comment on the better bit for your application? I'd go with the downcutting bit for the cleaner edges.

Edit: One more more more note.... You need to be sure that the bit and guide are as perfectly centered as possible. On many routers, this can undo an otherwise well-planned cut. It doesn't take much to screw up a rout - especially for a visible job like an exposed pickup hole. There are centering bits available very cheap. You mount them in the collet and then install the guide/bushing and bring the bit into the guide until it is contacting the guide all around - then you tighten the guide/bushing, and it is perfectly centered.

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by Enchanter_Tim

One more note here....
Previously, FBB mentioned the use of a straight fluted bit. These are WONDERFUL bits, but... There are 2 flavors: upcutting and downcutting. ...

I think you're talking about the spiral cutters Suburban mentioned, rather than standard straight flutes, yes?

[FBB Custom]

I don't know if it was me that mentioned flutes, but...

Regular fluted bits have cutters aligned with the shank of the bit. They are fine and cheaper than spiral bits. Most bits have 2 flutes (basically cutting edges), some have three or just 1. After you've logged some hours on the router you may decide to spend the extra bucks for the fancy spiral bits.

Spiral bits are helical and generally solid carbide. And more expensive. Use upcut bits for cavities (to clear the waste that can get in the way) and downcut for through and flush cuts (cleaner edge, see above).

[pilotjones]

And then there are the up and down cutters, too!