Anyone ever use strings that aren't cylindrical?

[Taylor Livingston]

Obviously roundwounds are not really cylinders, but I'm wondering if anyone has experimented with strings where the winding only covers, say, half the length of the string (I know about taperwounds, but generally people are trying to avoid weird inharmonicity, I'm wondering about encouraging it).

This could create some interesting inharmonicity, as well as create a point on the string at which pitch and timbre change rapidly above a certain fret.

There's also the possibility of using flat strings. Not flatwound, but actual uncoiled flat wire. If I remember right, this would create 2 fundamentals per string, since the string will be vibrating parallel to two different string thicknesses (not sure the best way to describe that in engineering terms). Could be pretty interesting. Also: springs instead of strings. Springs seem to have very low vibrating pitches relative to their length, so you can get some pretty low notes out of a short spring. There's also a pretty interesting timbre there.

Lastly, there's the "string network" concept, where a string does not have two endpoints as usual, but several. This was brought up recently here on LC, but if you missed it, here's the link. This guy has done some cool work with this idea.

So, anybody here ever done any experimenting with anything like this? While I've spent plenty of time imagining it, I have never done anything physical, so I'm interested to hear any experiences.

[uethanian]

i've thought about making a kind of nylon/metal combo...so like the part of the string over the fingerboard is nylon, and the part near the bridge has some ferrous metal in it, so it can be used with a pickup. the point is that you could use magnetic pickups on classical guitars, or classical string sets on electric guitars. perhaps metal wire could be embedded into the nylon? its hard to mix the two, because the metal would cut up the nylon pretty easily.

[Taylor Livingston]

Well, that sort of already exists, they're called tapewounds. The core is metal, and there is a nylon wrapping, so both materials are in both parts of the string. I don't think it would be possible to have different materials make up different segments of length without the inharmonicity of different mass-per-length quantities. Plus, joining the 2 in the middle would be pretty difficult.

[fryBASS]

hmm having springs for strings sounds like a pretty cool idea, but i don't know how well that would work due to the tension that would be on them.

[Saetia]

Pick slides on springs? That'd be something I'd like to hear.

-Benny

[fenderphil]

[joeyl]

you mean strings that are conical?

[uethanian]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Well, that sort of already exists, they're called tapewounds. The core is metal, and there is a nylon wrapping, so both materials are in both parts of the string. I don't think it would be possible to have different materials make up different segments of length without the inharmonicity of different mass-per-length quantities. Plus, joining the 2 in the middle would be pretty difficult.

no i kindof mean preserving the tension and tone of nylon guitar strings. perhaps it would be possible to add some iron powder into the mix before the string forms?

[zakkiedude132]

i'm not sure... but i think there are strings for fretless that are flattened (so semi-cylindrical (if thats the word)) so they dont eat up the fret board... not sure thought.

[dgelting]

Originally Posted by fenderphil

Of course, anyone that has creative ideas must be stoned, huh?

On topic, I'm interested in that "string network" link you put up. Very interesting.

I agree that it would be an cool thing to experiment with, but haven't done so myself. I'd imagine that there are others in the math/physics world that have done some experiments like you suggest.

[erikbojerik]

Originally Posted by dgelting

Of course, anyone that has creative ideas must be stoned, huh?

[Taylor Livingston]

Originally Posted by joeyl

you mean strings that are conical?

Yeah, I quite nearly made the same joke...

Originally Posted by uethanian

no i kindof mean preserving the tension and tone of nylon guitar strings. perhaps it would be possible to add some iron powder into the mix before the string forms?

Right, I know what you were going for, but I don't think it's possible without unwanted side effects.

Originally Posted by zakkiedude132

i'm not sure... but i think there are strings for fretless that are flattened (so semi-cylindrical (if thats the word)) so they dont eat up the fret board... not sure thought.

They are called flatwounds, and are pretty common.

[Angus]

No he means groundwounds (or the like), which are essentially rounds with the point of the winding literally ground off. Ie, it's like a flat but still has the valleys between the outside of the winding because it started it's life as round wire rather than flat.

[Taylor Livingston]

Well, either way, they are common and still cylindrical, so they aren't what this topic is about.

[pilotjones]

If you'd like some physics analysis of non-harmonic timbres, and non-linearly homogeneous strings to produce them, google up William Sethares. He also gets into temperaments, which relates since you could theoretically have an ideal non-homogeneous string to produce shifted overtones, to perfectly suit your chosen temperment. But all bets are off in that respect, I think, once you fret it.

[Taylor Livingston]

I have listened to some of Sethares's music, mostly that which relates to unusual temperaments. Some of it is pretty interesting; some totally over my head currently. I will look into his string-related work. Thanks for that.

Any idea how to make a conical string? Is there a commonly available wire that increases in thickness along its length? Theoretically, one could use this to shift into a different temperament without refretting.

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Any idea how to make a conical string? Is there a commonly available wire that increases in thickness along its length? Theoretically, one could use this to shift into a different temperament without refretting.

Unlikely. Wire is made by drawing metal rod through a series of successively smaller dies, each die being a plate or block with a conical bore through it, with the small end being a hair smaller than that on the previous die. In theory you could get a stepped wire if you put the plates close together, and continually stopped the manufacturing line and extricated the wire. But that's not how it is done. The wire flies by at hundreds of feet per minute by the time you get to the end, and there are feed machines required between each die station.

Maybe something could be made by selective vapor deposition. Although, while it might end up the right shape, that would not have the high degree of cold work that is one of the basic characteristics of music wire.

[lemur821]

It might be possible to paint something onto the string by hand to gradually increase its mass along its length.

[Taylor Livingston]

I think I'm going to glob some solder onto a string in various ways and see what I get...

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

I think I'm going to glob some solder onto a string in various ways and see what I get...

You can tie or clamp weights to them as well... prepared bass, here we come.