Bass Woods

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by rintintin

So the density of the wood then determines how the said frequencies resonate back onto the vibrating string. However this does not explain the initial question - premium woods be it exotic or otherwise, would sound better than a bass made with lesser grade wood.

If for argument sake it is accepted that all woods resonate ? frequencies back onto the vibrating string, would it be correct to say that some woods resonate said frequencies far better than others. Do some woods resonate said frequencies longer, do they resonate much cleaner than others. Do some woods resonate better when the strings are vibrating throughout the entire length of a song.

Are woods such as Alder, Maple, Mahogany, Rosewood excellent choice woods, and would an exotic or highly sought after wood add that much more to overall sound. Obviously hardware selection also plays a huge part, but if looking a woods alone and nothing else, is the extra dollars in exotic, rare, highly sought or premium, worth the extra dollars at the end of the day.

Do note: I do not consider Alder, Maple, Mahogany and Rosewood lesser grade woods.


cheers

Premium quality woods are in most cases, more aesthetically appealing. Totally subjective to taste, but for the most part true. The thing with lesser grades of woods is sometimes they have flaws. Things that will warp out of shape over time, be it the neck, fingerboard, cracks in the body, etc. The grades, AA, AAA, AAAA are more for the purity in the deformity such as flame, burl, or quilting. The other woods such as body billets and other large solid pieces not as fancy as some boutique bass tops, but are very sturdy in that there are no grain deformities that could warp five or ten years down the road. Sometimes they've been sitting drying for years to make sure that they will never crack or warp.

Originally Posted by awilkie84

This is great for acoustics...but it doesn't affect magnetic coil pickups, as they don't care what kind of wood you have. Proof in point, my EMG-HZ passive pickups sound the same in my Alder bodied Spector ReBop 5DXL and my Maple bodied Spector NS-2000/5.

It actually does. The string oscillates on the body, which then resonates with the notes and harmonics of the string, and depending on the density of the wood, reinforces certain harmonics within the oscillations of the original string, not to mention the other strings if you're not muting them. And if you have solid-mounted pickups (not spring or foam mounted), they will also move with the resonance of the note being played. Will that theoretically affect the tone? Yes. Can we prove it without an exorbitantly priced experiment that has so many factors that need controlled we could potentially never isolate the one factor we wish to test? Unfortunately no

[DrDAV14]

.....and then there's graphite and aluminum etc...
Your talking about one variable in a long equation.

[Beej]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

Also, after reading your posts on the last "tone-paint" thread, I must say, your articulation and fair and unbiased responses have earned my respect.

Likewise...

[Blue_Whistle88]

Originally Posted by Hopkins

They sound better because they are built better, with better parts, and electronics.

Not necessarily. Also, tell that to the $350 bass I have back in NZ that feels and sounds as good as both the basses I've got here, each costing $2000. If it's good, it's good. Pricetag doesn't always maketh the guitar.

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by uOpt

Your mistake is still thinking that the more expensive bass has better sounding wood. It probably (not necessarily) has more expensive wood but that doesn't make it better sounding wood.

You also lost me on "electronics and strings". You can't seriously say that strings make nearly as much difference as making radical changes to the pickups (e.g. go from a awg42 PAF to a awg44 JB).

No, I didn't make the mistake of thinking expensive woods sound better. I don't think wood has a sound at all. I said some of the more expensive wood is aesthetically pleasing (looks good)

And yes, changing strings is the most radical tone changing mod you can do to a bass. Switch from a stainless round, to flats and you will have a completely different sounding instrument.

Pickup positioning makes a much bigger difference than the pickups themselves. Pickups are a pretty subtle difference tone wise, but when finding your sound the devil is in the details.

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by Blue_Whistle88

Not necessarily. Also, tell that to the $350 bass I have back in NZ that feels and sounds as good as both the basses I've got here, each costing $2000. If it's good, it's good. Pricetag doesn't always maketh the guitar.

Some people don't understand the art of generalization. On average, a bass built with better parts and craftsmanship will sound better and be more expensive. There are a few cheap guitars that sound and play great, but the law of averages applies.

[jobo4]

Originally Posted by Hopkins

And yes, changing strings is the most radical tone changing mod you can do to a bass. Switch from a stainless round, to flats and you will have a completely different sounding instrument.

Pickup positioning makes a much bigger difference than the pickups themselves. Pickups are a pretty subtle difference tone wise, but when finding your sound the devil is in the details.

Yes.

[uOpt]

Originally Posted by Rockin Mike

Don't be offended. I'm just saying you need more than two basses to have any useful data, logically.

I'm not following.

If I take one alder body P bass and buy an identical format alder body and move over neck, pickup and bridge. Then if it sounds different then the point is proven, no?

[Macrocosmcwh]

I have two basses with Piezo pickups in them... When I "knuckle knock" on the wood of both of those instruments you can for sure hear it and hear a difference between them. So I would have to think that the wood does play a part in the sound. I am also a cellist. In a cello, when they make the instrument they bang the pieces of wood together of the back section of the instrument to make sure that they sound good tonally to each other. They listen for "echo" in the wood. In non-acoustic instruments however I do think that the electronics play the majority factor in sound.

Somewhere in this thread someone made a comment about how wood effects harmonics... NOW THIS I KNOW TO BE TRUE. Just take any "budget bass" and a higher priced bass and you can for sure hear a difference. Since as we play part of the sound is the harmonic resonance, once again, I BELIEVE that wood plays a part on the color of the sound.

Now to address the OP question about if exotic woods change the sound.... I would doubt that the thin pieces of wood that make the bass beautiful do much to change the sound I BELIEVE it has more to do with the core of the bass and the neck for coloration....

[los100malditos]

In december 2011, after several active, passive, fretles, PJ, headless, humbucker, soapbar, and acoustic basses i have owned, i decided that i wanted simple ... a Precision Bass ... so before buying i was lucky to find in the same store, many precision types,.... of course i tried & tested all ... Fender has won ...

i tried American Deluxe, American Standard , American Special, Roger Waters signature, Highway one, Mexican Standard, squier classic Vibe

THE RICHNESS & FULLNESS OF THE SOUND INCREASED WITH PRICE (THIS MIGHT BE DUE BEST SELECTED WOOD) i read that Fender select best woods for custom shop, then deluxe, then standard, then highway one, and mexico....

American Standard and American Deluxe sounded equal to me in passive mode (the deluxe in active mode sounded active bigger) of course due to active electronics

as i said before -i wanted simple & better- so i bought American Standard.

[James L]

When I press my ear against the upper horn of my bass and pluck a string I can hear and feel the body vibrate. I own seven and each one is different. The wood does make a difference. But more importantly its the player and the attack on the string.

[Beej]

Originally Posted by uOpt

I'm not following.

If I take one alder body P bass and buy an identical format alder body and move over neck, pickup and bridge. Then if it sounds different then the point is proven, no?

Not sure if you're kidding, but the accurate answer is "absolutely not". With respect, please read the tonepaint thread and in particular google "cognitive bias" for further research...

[Beej]

Originally Posted by James L

When I press my ear against the upper horn of my bass and pluck a string I can hear and feel the body vibrate. I own seven and each one is different. The wood does make a difference. But more importantly its the player and the attack on the string.

Again, with respect, that is a meaningless way of making a determination that wood makes a difference. There is actually much, much more going on than what you've outlined...

[Beej]

Originally Posted by Macrocosmcwh

I have two basses with Piezo pickups in them... When I "knuckle knock" on the wood of both of those instruments you can for sure hear it and hear a difference between them. So I would have to think that the wood does play a part in the sound. I am also a cellist. In a cello, when they make the instrument they bang the pieces of wood together of the back section of the instrument to make sure that they sound good tonally to each other. They listen for "echo" in the wood. In non-acoustic instruments however I do think that the electronics play the majority factor in sound.

Somewhere in this thread someone made a comment about how wood effects harmonics... NOW THIS I KNOW TO BE TRUE. Just take any "budget bass" and a higher priced bass and you can for sure hear a difference. Since as we play part of the sound is the harmonic resonance, once again, I BELIEVE that wood plays a part on the color of the sound.

Now to address the OP question about if exotic woods change the sound.... I would doubt that the thin pieces of wood that make the bass beautiful do much to change the sound I BELIEVE it has more to do with the core of the bass and the neck for coloration....

Of course you believe there is a difference. That is the entire point of needing to understand what cognitive bias is. With respect of course...

[Beej]

Originally Posted by Hopkins

Some people don't understand the art of generalization. On average, a bass built with better parts and craftsmanship will sound better and be more expensive. There are a few cheap guitars that sound and play great, but the law of averages applies.

In my view, this is correct. "Better" is a cognitive determination and is affected by our desire to have nice things (among a million other influences)...

[Beej]

Originally Posted by DrDAV14

.....and then there's graphite and aluminum etc...
Your talking about one variable in a long equation.

AMEN!

[los100malditos]

In december 2011, after several active, passive, fretles, PJ, headless, humbucker, soapbar, and acoustic basses i have owned, i decided that i wanted simple ... a Precision Bass ... so before buying i was lucky to find in the same store, many precision types,.... of course i tried & tested all ... Fender has won ...

i tried American Deluxe, American Standard , American Special, Roger Waters signature, Highway one, Mexican Standard, squier classic Vibe

THE RICHNESS & FULLNESS OF THE SOUND INCREASED WITH PRICE (THIS MIGHT BE DUE BEST SELECTED WOOD) i read that Fender select best woods for custom shop, then deluxe, then standard, then highway one, and mexico....

American Standard and American Deluxe sounded equal to me in passive mode (the deluxe in active mode sounded active bigger) of course due to active electronics

as i said before -i wanted simple & better- so i bought American Standard

[uOpt]

Originally Posted by Beej

Not sure if you're kidding, but the accurate answer is "absolutely not". With respect, please read the tonepaint thread and in particular google "cognitive bias" for further research...

Cognitive bias is easily fixed with a set of before/after recordings.

[rockchalkbass]

Originally Posted by uOpt

Cognitive bias is easily fixed with a set of before/after recordings.

Not as easy if you rule out amateur, bedroom recordings and testers listening through whatever earbuds/$10 computer speakers they happen to have on hand. With that kind of blind test people are liable to not be able to identify whether they are listening to a bass or a kazoo.

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by uOpt

Cognitive bias is easily fixed with a set of before/after recordings.

Yes, but getting the before/after recordings to reflect a change in only one of the factors that contribute to the natural tone of a bass is the tricky, and some would argue (myself included) nearly impossible, part.