becoming a luthier

blackbird46 · #1 05-24-2007, 03:43 PM

how do i become a luthier? ive been interested in becoming one for over a year now and dont know how to get started.

help?

T2W · #2 05-24-2007, 05:20 PM

Build a Bass?

WarriorJoe7 · #3 05-24-2007, 05:35 PM

Well do you mean? for a living? beccause it is incredibly INCREDIBLY competitive. But if you mean hobbyist then just build an instrument. There are books, there are schools (google Roberto Venn.)

It is not easy, and it is hard to make money unless you are really good at design, woodwork, finishing, basic electronics, and especially marketing and business. It also helps if you have enough money to buy good tooling and go to school and then enough money to gradually build up your business while you also spend money on marketing.

Probably the best route is to find a luthier who will let you work under them for a few years, but good luck there... Most don't want to and won't give away any guarded secrets anyways, quite a few won't even hire even if they can't keep up with demand. Plus you gotta compete with mass produced basses and mass producer's advertising as well as builders who are more skilled than you. Of course none of this matters if you mean just a hobbyist luthier.

Not trying to discourage but this is not along the lines of "I want to be a truckdriver" or even an engineer, policeman, or lawyer which all take just some training, granted different amounts, but they are pretty structured. This is more along the lines of "I want to be a pro musician," and actually it's getting to be along the lines of "I want to be a professional athlete..." It can be that competitive... there is no really super structured way to achieve it you just have to be very very very good (or just good and lucky.)

iamlowsound · #4 05-24-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

Well do you mean? for a living? beccause it is incredibly INCREDIBLY competitive. But if you mean hobbyist then just build an instrument. There are books, there are schools (google Roberto Venn.)

It is not easy, and it is hard to make money unless you are really good at design, woodwork, finishing, basic electronics, and especially marketing and business. It also helps if you have enough money to buy good tooling and go to school and then enough money to gradually build up your business while you also spend money on marketing.

Probably the best route is to find a luthier who will let you work under them for a few years, but good luck there... Most don't want to and won't give away any guarded secrets anyways, quite a few won't even hire even if they can't keep up with demand. Plus you gotta compete with mass produced basses and mass producer's advertising as well as builders who are more skilled than you. Of course none of this matters if you mean just a hobbyist luthier.

Not trying to discourage but this is not along the lines of "I want to be a truckdriver" or even an engineer, policeman, or lawyer which all take just some training, granted different amounts, but they are pretty structured. This is more along the lines of "I want to be a pro musician," and actually it's getting to be along the lines of "I want to be a professional athlete..." It can be that competitive... there is no really super structured way to achieve it you just have to be very very very good (or just good and lucky.)

What he said.

If you are just looking to build one for fun, there are a bunch of links in the stickies that are a great help.

lowsound

blackbird46 · #5 05-25-2007, 03:00 AM

i was kinda looking at doing it to make money...not that I want it to become some huge success where im just rolling in it but more than just a hobby. not too competitive, but heard of and respected.

WarriorJoe7 · #6 05-25-2007, 03:38 AM

likely you will make not make your money back you spent on parts and wood, especially at first, and if you get real good you will make minimum wage or less for the amount of hours you put in. If you have good marketing money to throw at it or lots of time and you are really really good then you can become the next sadowsky etc. Sadowsky started the late 70s, his business wasn't really built up until sometime in the 90s I believe. This is very typical. Most builders who get well known in less than 10 years (very very rare) offer something very unique or else they are very lucky, or else they are rich already and can throw money at it. Actually I can't think of a builder who has gotten well known in less than 5 years other than Wickersham at Alembic and Leo Fender. Maybe Valenti here qualifies but he works for sadowsky (still) and did before he even started offering instruments. I don't think he makes enough money to live on from just his own instruments and I am guessing he sells a few dozen basses a year. He is relatively well known here on talkbass too. Maybe he will be the next great established luthier. He is great but he is not fully established and independent yet. I could be wrong but that's my impression.

Son of Magni · #7 05-25-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird46

i was kinda looking at doing it to make money...not that I want it to become some huge success where im just rolling in it but more than just a hobby. not too competitive, but heard of and respected.

Ah, for the fame and glory

Thonk · #8 05-25-2007, 09:17 AM

to quote my master

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melvin Hiscox

The best way of making a small fortune in guitar making is to start with a big one

erikbojerik · #9 05-25-2007, 11:31 AM

Paul Reed Smith lived and breathed building every day, pounded the pavement looking for gigging musicians to play his product and investors who would help him start a business. He spent more money than he earned each of his first 10 years AFTER he had already built up his skills.

If you're ready for that, and can live on a long-term diet of cottage cheese and top-ramen, go for it!

WarriorJoe7 · #10 05-25-2007, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

Paul Reed Smith lived and breathed building every day, pounded the pavement looking for gigging musicians to play his product and investors who would help him start a business. He spent more money than he earned each of his first 10 years AFTER he had already built up his skills.

only to have gibson sue him over a guitar that looked too much like their own LOL

erikbojerik · #11 05-25-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

only to have gibson sue him over a guitar that looked too much like their own LOL

...and win!

And...at some point in time after he started turning a profit, people began to speak of "the big three" instead of the "big two" when talking about guitar companies.

Ray Holt · #12 05-26-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

...and win!

And...at some point in time after he started turning a profit, people began to speak of "the big three" instead of the "big two" when talking about guitar companies.

Yeah I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself. My only grudge with PRS is that they charge way too much for a production line guitar.

As far as learning to be a luthier... it's hard to say man. I'd say the ONLY way, is to DO IT. Build a kit in your garage for starters, then a more involved guitar, or try to get in with a builder, or go to work for a bigger company... you just have to do it.

PilbaraBass · #13 05-26-2007, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thonk

to quote my master

Melvin Hiscock himself has chimed in, in the past on TB...now how COOL is THAT????

He's like the Yoda of luthiers...lol

erikbojerik · #14 05-26-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Holt

My only grudge with PRS is that they charge way too much for a production line guitar.

If you are in the business, and you charge way less than the market will bear, then you won't be in business long.

The ultimate low-margin business is grocery stores, the only way to turn a profit is volume (and hiring only part-time employees with no benefits...but that's another subject entirely). If you're in a major market and you're not huge, you're struggling.

Ray Holt · #15 05-26-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

If you are in the business, and you charge way less than the market will bear, then you won't be in business long.

You're right. People are willing to pay what he's asking, so more power to him. I'm just mad because I want one and don't have $3,000 to spare

iamlowsound · #16 05-26-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Holt

You're right. People are willing to pay what he's asking, so more power to him. I'm just mad because I want one and don't have $3,000 to spare

Your work looks just as good as his, make yourself a nice guitar for a fraction of the price.

lowsound

**Rodent** · #17 05-26-2007, 11:50 AM

the best advice I can offer is to share with you what a gifted builder friend of mine share with me when I began to think about building my own parts instead of merely being an assembler of others parts ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Watts

OK, you've assembled over 10 basses now - good for you! You should have a decent understanding of how everything fits together, where tolerances are critical, and how things function.

The best advice I can offer for you now is to do as much repair work as you can. It's only by fixing what other people designed poorly and/or built inadequately that you will start to see where you need to put special attention in to your designs so you don't repeat the mistakes they have made. In learning how to fix broken/cracked angle headstock necks, you'll discover what makes them weak ... and you'll know where you need to focus your design to remedy this. In fixing warped/twisted necks you'll soon see a consistency in where things went wrong, and you'll avoid this in your own building/designs. In re-fretting instruments, you'll become an expert in doing stellar fretwork on new builds. In repairing and customizing electronics, you'll become crafted at the art of super neat and organized wiring.

and one last quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruhn Guitars, Nashville

The best repair person is one who leaves no tracks. When they repair an instrument, all that is seen looks just like it was originally done that way. A repair job should never take on the look of the repair person ... except that the repair person has crafted their work to look just like the original builder - they should be a cameleon in everything they do. It's not the the repair person's job to seek glory, but to do their work in such a way that all of the glory points to the original builder ... and in doing so, honor and respect is heaped upon the anonymous repair person.

I can't think of any better advice to share that what these people have already said.

all the best,

R