Binding Glue? Acetone?

SurferJoe46 · #1 08-07-2011, 06:58 PM

Can't acetone alone be used to glue the plastic binding onto a headstock?

I know something like Duco is called for - but it's basically acetone and MEK anyway, and they're just solvents - right?

Sardine · #2 08-07-2011, 07:08 PM

Acetone itself is far to liquid, you need something with some viscosity to it. You can dissolve shavings of binding in acetone to form a kind of goop which makes quite a nice binding glue, as it will fill gaps to some extent as well. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the mix right, and you need very little acetone, much less than you would think. Just don't mix it in a plastic cup!

SurferJoe46 · #3 08-07-2011, 08:01 PM

I just experimented with a 1-inch piece of the binding material and it holds pretty well.

OK - I SEARCHED for answers, and there's some discussion on scraping the binding to the height you need with what appears to be a cabinet scraper - no problem there.

But can it be sanded later on too with a fairly non-abrasive (more than 120#) sand paper?

I'm doing a three-layer binding - Black/Yellow/Black around most of Fender style headstock and just wonder if the binding will put up with that abuse in finishing it later on, that's all.

robbotbass · #4 08-07-2011, 08:06 PM

Make sure you use a mask if you use Acetone. That stuff is killer! As for your question I'm with Sardine that it's a little to liquidy and it evaporates very fast so to get it right would be pretty hard I would think

SurferJoe46 · #5 08-07-2011, 08:10 PM

OK - I'll wait until I can get some of the Duco or the other PVC-type glue for the job.

BassCycle · #6 08-07-2011, 11:08 PM

I've used this successully.

SurferJoe46 · #7 08-07-2011, 11:14 PM

I had a tube of an Acrylic and PVC glue that's supposed to be reactive with the StewMac bindings.

It was.

I tested it on a short piece like I did with the acetone, and they are both pretty well bound at the moment and defy pulling them out of an old piece of plywood that I routed for a test.

I used the last squirt of that glue on the headstock already - we'll see tomorrow how it comes out.

I'll get the correct stuff from Temecula tomorrow and then I'll try it too.

mikeyswood · #8 08-07-2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbotbass

Make sure you use a mask if you use Acetone. That stuff is killer! As for your question I'm with Sardine that it's a little to liquidy and it evaporates very fast so to get it right would be pretty hard I would think

Clearly you are not a chemist.

You can wipe the acetone on the surface and then stick each successive layer together. Sandpaper won't be a problem once you get your technique down.

C.Linton · #9 08-08-2011, 04:01 AM

AFAIK, Acetone is not really an adhesive. It acts more as a solvent. The only way it can be used as an adhesive, is if you were assembling two pieces of plastic together that Acetone can affect, allowing the surfaces to be joined to dissolve and then place them together, in effect "welding" them together. Even then, there are much better and more effective means to to do that. You can't use Acetone to join plastic to wood. (or metal, or glass, whatever).

SurferJoe46 · #10 08-08-2011, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyswood

Clearly you are not a chemist.

You can wipe the acetone on the surface and then stick each successive layer together. Sandpaper won't be a problem once you get your technique down.

Yup. I remember plastics lab in high school. If you can solvent soften it, you can weld it to a similar plastic - if I remember correctly.

I - of course - never attended plastics lab since when I went to high school, (I had to listen to my kids talk about it when THEY had plastics labs), we were still using square wooden wheels on our oxcarts.

Once the corners wore down and the wheel got round, we threw them away and got new square ones.

Plastics were still in the 'Bakelite' and 'Isenglass' style in those days. I think nylon came along a little after I graduated.

Musiclogic · #11 08-08-2011, 12:19 PM

The reason the acetone weld doesn't work well with wood is because you need something that will penetrate the wood fibers to get a good bind. So stuff like sig-ment and epoxy, or CA can be used.

tehbassist · #12 08-08-2011, 08:13 PM

Ya CA works fine for plastic binding, one of the few exceptions to my titebond only rule.

mikeyswood · #13 08-09-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

The reason the acetone weld doesn't work well with wood is because you need something that will penetrate the wood fibers to get a good bind. So stuff like sig-ment and epoxy, or CA can be used.

Not quite. When the right amount of ketone is used it will open up enough hydrogen bonding in the plastic that will be as good as any acetate.

Spitfire7 · #14 04-25-2013, 09:17 PM

Hey guys, I know this thread is super old, but if anyone is still out there I am wondering if this acetone glue idea would work for thin sheets of cured epoxy being glued onto PVC. What do you think? I am wondering if the acetone will actually soften and eat away at the epoxy and make it sticky and do quite the opposite of what I would like to achieve. Im trying to glue thin sheets of clear epoxy over PVC plastic. Any thoughts?

SurferJoe46 · #15 04-28-2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyswood

Not quite. When the right amount of ketone is used it will open up enough hydrogen bonding in the plastic that will be as good as any acetate.

Yup - absolutely correct! I just finished a left-handed fretless neck in red oak for a buddy, and since he wants to put the final finish on it, the binding is just hanging on all by itself with the acetone weld technique.