Black Leather Dye then Tung Oil...

Bobby Lemain · #1 08-09-2009, 09:04 PM

I'm thinking of sanding the annoyingly thick (yes I know it will take a long time) polyurethane finish on my Squire Jazz Bass and ebonizing the wood using black shoe dye, then applying several coats of high gloss tung oil.

Fears aside that the body may not be a single piece of wood, I have read that some gun replica aficionados use leather dye on their guns, then use an oil finish (sometimes a combination of tung and linseed) and it seems to be good for them.

Basically, the plan is to sand down the body using a palm sander, various sheets of sand paper, my hands, and time to get the finish off. After the wood is bare, I will apply the dye (some how....) to the wood and hopefully get a color good enough to stick with. The wood will rest for 24 hours, then I will rub down with 0000 steel wool and apply the oil repeatedly for as many days needed. Then I'll shield the cavities and pickguard.

Any objections? (I'm not really sure when this is gonna happen, but I'll eventually do it)

ppk · #2 08-09-2009, 09:14 PM

I Have no idea about the die depending on what king of wood the finger board is it, you may or may not be succesful in making it completely black. but my only objection is the tung oil. it will most likely gum up after a few minutes of playing. i was going to put watco gunstock oil on my fingerboard on a build and i was told even that wasnt hard enough. I would go with an epoxy coating.

HogieWan · #3 08-09-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Lemain

Basically, the plan is to sand down the body using a palm sander, various sheets of sand paper, my hands, and time to get the finish off.

This will take a lot of sandpaper and a lot of time

Bobby Lemain · #4 08-09-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppk

I Have no idea about the die depending on what king of wood the finger board is it, you may or may not be succesful in making it completely black. but my only objection is the tung oil. it will most likely gum up after a few minutes of playing. i was going to put watco gunstock oil on my fingerboard on a build and i was told even that wasnt hard enough. I would go with an epoxy coating.

Actually, I'm gonna leave the neck/fretboard stock (unless I decide to make a custom logo). Will the Tung Oil be enough for the body?

Beej · #5 08-09-2009, 09:34 PM

Don't bother sanding it off, use a heat gun or some really potent chemical stripper. That sanding will take forever and will probably just make you angrier and angrier.

Insofar as the dye goes, I'd try some wood dye first, it works really nicely. The rest of your plan seems fine...

Dennis Peacock · #6 08-09-2009, 11:06 PM

Ebonize your wood with some black ink. I use it when I was to simulate ebony wood and I just use maple or poplar and die it with a good quality black ink. Works really well.

Taking of poly is a real challenge at times. Use a good citrus stripper and keep the stripper on the body of the bass. Let set for a bit (follow the instructions) and scrap off the old finish. The citrus type strippers take longer but they are more human friendly that breathing the bad chemical stuff we often times submit our selves to.

BTW, you may find that scraping the old finish off will work rather well too....but you need some woodworkers hand scrapers (flat metal cards with a burr rolled on the end). I use them a lot in my furniture making and it's a lot faster than sanding when you need to take a good bit off.

And yes....a heat gun will work rather nicely on the poly finish.

62bass · #7 08-10-2009, 05:28 AM

I'd use a water based wood dye rather than shoe dye which is not very light fast. I've used the shoe dyes and while they have some pretty vibrant colours, they didn't last long.

The tung oil will add a bit of a tint to the final result.

Since you haven't yet started, buy a test piece of hardwood from Home Depot or a lumberyard, sand it and try out the dye and tung oil. That's the only way you'll know.

For sure use a heat gun to remove the poly finish. You'll still need to so some sanding after.

LanEvo · #8 08-10-2009, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Lemain

Fears aside that the body may not be a single piece of wood...

If it's a Squier bass, you can pretty much bet the farm that the body is made up of at least 3 pieces of wood (4 or 5 pieces is not unheard of). Don't keep your hopes too high

HogieWan · #9 08-10-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beej

Insofar as the dye goes, I'd try some wood dye first, it works really nicely. The rest of your plan seems fine...

The "wood dye" you buy from stew mac is labeled as leather dye, so it's all the same stuff.

ctmullins · #10 08-10-2009, 11:10 AM

Good plan, but be sure to get every last bit of the old finish off. I did this once, and didn't quite get the old finish out of a couple tight nooks - the new finish didn't take.

Jazzdogg · #11 08-10-2009, 11:50 AM

Here's a link that provides information on dye:

http://www.homesteadfinishingproduct...tdocs/faqs.htm

**zenrad** · #12 08-10-2009, 12:06 PM

Fiebings black leather oil-based dye is what Stew-Mac sells, I use their dyes for my leatherwork and I use the black oil-based dye for dying ebony fingerboards and bridges as well. The color has been stable for about 18 years so far on the oldest pieces I've dyed.

Be sure to get ALL of the finish off or it won't take the dye evenly.

Stay away from linseed oil unless you want to re-oil it every year forever. Tung oil would be better, better still may be Tru-Oil.

The linseed oil process for gunstocks goes like this:
Rub linseed oil in once a day for a week
then once a week for a month
then once a month for a year
then once a year for life.

(along with guitar making and leatherwork I do occasional gunsmithing for myself.)

Stick with a polymerized oil product, like polymerized Tung oil or tru-oil. It will harden and give you a more durable finish and won't require the attention that linseed oil does. I finished an acoustic guitar in Tru-oil rather than lacquer and it's held up very well. Has a nice feel too.

BTW, once you get that finish off there's no telling what will be under it...once you dye it you may want to paint it again

and if you want to maintain your sanity buy some good paint stripper and unless there's Fullerplast under it all of the finish will come off.

floofypoof · #13 08-10-2009, 01:51 PM

I have one bit of advice regarding stripping off a polyurethane finish:

1. Don't bother.

It is a horrible experience. It is not fun. Even if you make minimum wage and have to save for months, you will still be better off saving up the $100 and buying a Mighty Mite body off ebay.

Sure, a palm sander sounds like a keen idea. Eventually you will have to get between the lower horn and the neck pocket.

Seriously, it's not worth the hassle.

Don't do it.

Jools4001 · #14 08-10-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LanEvo

If it's a Squier bass, you can pretty much bet the farm that the body is made up of at least 3 pieces of wood (4 or 5 pieces is not unheard of). Don't keep your hopes too high

A body with 3 or more pieces of wood makes a bass rubbish?

....somebody ought to tell Carl Thompson

62bass · #15 08-10-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jools4001

A body with 3 or more pieces of wood makes a bass rubbish?

....somebody ought to tell Carl Thompson

It's appearance he's taking about. Carl Thompson uses different figured pieces too, but artistically matched so they look good.

standupright · #16 08-10-2009, 04:17 PM

heat gun and a scraper to get the poly off.

LanEvo · #17 08-11-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jools4001

A body with 3 or more pieces of wood makes a bass rubbish?

....somebody ought to tell Carl Thompson

No one said anything about rubbish. But if you expect a 4-5 piece Squier body to look as good as a Carl Thompson, you might be in for a surprise