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  #1  
Old 03-29-2008, 09:38 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
Body glue up question

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My dad had some beautiful black walnut planks that he got a friend.

1 inch thick, 12 inches wide probably any where from 5 to 12 feet long.

Now here's my question. Since the boards are wide enough to do the do the body style I want ( a modified thumb) can I glue up two pieces to get the thickness that I want instead of gluing up pieces to get the width?

I hope that made sense, basically what I'm looking to do is glue two boards on top of each other to get a body blank that is 1 1/2 inches thick by 12 inches wide.

I know a lot of builders do laminate tops, but obviously they're not using a 3/4 inch piece.
Thanks.
Jeremy
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  #2  
Old 03-29-2008, 11:42 PM
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Aboslutely. Just clamp and glue them one on top of the other nice and tight and you are set to go!


Simon
  #3  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:58 AM
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Yes, you can do this but here are a few things to be careful about.

1) Depending on the grain direction (flat, rift, quartered) you could wind up with a warped body if you just slap those two pieces together. Maybe not today, but down the road as the humidity changes. I will assume for the moment that the material you have is what is known as flat sawn, or plane cut. That means the rings of the tree are running across the width of the board. At a minimum you should make sure the rings are oriented opposite each other when you glue up. Like this () or this )(. Not this (( or this )). For even better warp management another layer in the center of a similar or contrasting wood can be bitchin' looking and also stabilize the lamination. This piece should be oriented with the long grain 90 degrees to the outer laminations. (l)

2) You need lot's of clamps or a vacuum press to do a proper job of lamination. Wood clamps put a lot of pressure in a small area. You are trying to clamp a large area and must distribute the force of the clamps over a wide area. The math is against you and furthermore, leverage is against you as you try to clamp the center of the board. Lot's of deep throat clamps is the ticket. Better yet, glue up the two halves to the thickness you want and then join them together later. Setting them down on the floor and putting dumbell weights on them is a dumbell thing to do too. Again, the pounds per square inch math gets you. A 100 pound weight on an 18 X 24 lamination is less than 1/4 of a pound per square inch of pressure.

3) Don't discount the hydrostatic pressure of the glue before it dries. Ever notice when you glue up even two 3/4" pieces of wood together that you can clean up the squeeze out only to have more appear a minute later? That glue is coming from only 3/8" or less away and has a hell of a time migrating that far. Now, how much excess glue is puddling up inside that 18" wide lamination you are considering? Just the right amount of glue is the thing to do here. I use a paint roller followed by a very fine toothed trowel to apply glue on large laminations. The roller controls the amount of glue applied and the trowel raises ridges that will then flatten out as pressure is applied. The thing you don't want is a puddle of glue that has no where to go.

4) Install some locating dowels in the waste areas of your lamination to keep things in line while the glue is setting up. Slippery stuff that glue, and it may just move a bit on you even after the last clamp is tightened.

5) I'll get some argument on this one, but it is a good idea (in my opinion) to sprits a little water on the unglued side of the board just prior to applying the glue. Don't soak it. All you are trying to do is introduce the same amount of moisture to the unglued side as you are with the glue on the other side. This keeps the board from warping away from the glue joint as wood that is glued tends to do.

6) Last thought. Use standard Titebond and not the II or III or any of the waterproof stuff. I won't get into it here. Just trust me.

Pardon my chicken little approach to this. Been doing it too long and seen all kinds of good wood go in the scrap pile that could have been on stage instead.

Greg N
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Last edited by Nelson Guitars : 03-30-2008 at 10:02 AM.
  #4  
Old 03-30-2008, 10:25 AM
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Thank you very much Greg..
I actually did two different pieces just in case it wasn't ideal to do a glue up on that big a chunck of wood.

I have 2 12wx23lx3/4 slabs and then I have 4 6wx23lx3/4 pieces. I also have 2 2wx23lxl3/4t center pieces in case I felt like doing a body a little bit wider.

Here's another quick couple questions: do think there will be any effect on tone with having a body glued up of four pieces?( meaning two tops and to bottoms then glued into one body)
Second: with doing a center laminate, how thick/thin should I go? A builder I worked with before loved to use 1/32 or 1/16 sheets for edge lines.

I was also going to ask about thoughts on glue for this project, so thanks for that one as well.

Once again, Thank you.
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2008, 10:39 AM
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If the walnut is figured you might have those pieces resawed & use them as tops on ash, alder or whatever floats your boat. You'd get twice as many tops as body blanks(or 4X if you glue them together double thick as per your original plan). I have a few pieces of a walnut tree that we had cut down, & it has very nice figuring.
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2008, 11:54 AM
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tightbond and as many clamps as you can. i was gluing the faces of some maple together, and used 30 clamps
  #7  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan_frerichs View Post
tightbond and as many clamps as you can.
And use sacrificial plywood or lumber so you don't put clamp marks in the wood you want to keep, and to distribute the pressure more evenly.

Everything affects tone. Four pieces as opposed to two is not something that I think you could even measure with any accuracy. Don't worry about it.

The center laminate can be veneer or 1/8" thick or so. It's up to you and the material you have. You should have equal thickness on either side of it though to keep the lamination balanced. This is a structural improvement not a requirement.

You typically see body cores more significant and top/back woods thinner. No surprise here, it is because of the value of the highly figured woods and nothing to do with tone. It makes sense to use a boring but structurally and tonally sound core and save the fancy stuff for the visual. Many of the factory bodies with "wow factor" veneers on them are just that, veneer. Look at them closely and you will see they have a paint grade core with a fancy veneer on top that is a few thousandths thick. The painted back side is "bursted" around the face of the body just enough to cover where the veneer is lost to the round over bit on the shaper.

Greg N
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