Bolt On vs Neck Through

slaptastical · #1 12-20-2007, 03:59 AM

Hi all,
I just about to embark on building my own fretless bass. Im getting the hardware so I know dimensions etc, and Ive designed the bass as a neck through model, only because I have only found intructions on how to do it this way as opposed to bolt on. Does anyone have any thoughts on which is easier to build, since this is my first project. The more I think about it the more I'd prefer to re-design and build a bolt-on, probably ash with a maple cap for the body, and construct the neck seperately. Does anyone have any advice or point me in the right direction to a useful website?
Many thanks!

**Rodent** · #2 12-20-2007, 04:42 AM

advice:

*read the new builder sticky at the top of this firum - there are many essential resources identified. obtain one or more of the identified building books and read, re-read, re-read, re-read, and read it again.

* learn the contents so you can recite the concepts without the aide of having the book open.

* purchase some inexpensive wood from a local lumber store and practice shaping a body and neck

* when you can shape things accurately ... it's time to move up to commonly used woods and make your first realy body and neck

all the best on your project,

R

Gone · #3 12-20-2007, 05:08 AM

IMO neck through is easier but harder to repair if something goes wrong...

Nelson Guitars · #4 12-20-2007, 06:04 AM

For a first time builder a neck through is probably easier. If you are doing production runs the bolt on has many advantages. If you are truly a newbie when it comes to wood working then I would go with the neck through. If however you have experience with wood, and especially with setting up and using router jigs then bolt on should not be all that difficult.

How is that for a non answer?

I whole heartedly agree with the gather as much information as you can and do some trial runs before committing to any expensive woods approach. You may also consider the kit approach. No shame in that. There is enough to learn there for anyone just starting out.

Greg N

lhoward · #5 12-20-2007, 10:13 AM

GONE's remark raises a good point, but if you feel confident in your ability, don't let it deter you in attempting to make neck-through design. Just think through the process before you do anything, make notes and then review the process each time you work on a piece of wood so you minimize the chance of any mistakes. When considering a bolt-on neck vs a neck-through, each has its own technical challenges that must be dealt with.

There's a lot of information available at your finger tips through the development of the Internet and sites like this one where there's a tremendous exchange of information. I think Talkbass probably has the Lion's share of information exchange compared to any other individual website.

I built a fretless 4-string bass 24 years ago with a bolt-on neck. The hardest thing about a bolt-on neck that I ran across when building it (and there were no proto-types or replaced parts with this bass, just the final product) is ensuring the alignment of the neck in the neck heel along the longitudinal axis of the bassbody - neck combination is precise so that it "looks" right (note that the eye can detect extremely minute variations) and ensures the strings will go over the pickup correctly. The other thing that I took time with was letting the wood acclimate in my house before doing any carving to help avoid possible checking and/or splitting. The body is black walnut and the neck is hard maple with an ebony fingerboard. All the hardware is brass, except for the tuners which are the old, nickel-plated Fender, elephant-ear tuners.

I started the bass by acquiring the wood for the neck and fingerboard in 1983, while living in Virginia, and started shaping/carving it after allowing it to acclimate for 4 months. The body came later after moving 600 miles and building a house. Later I found a gorgeous 6 ft slab of black walnut and used half for the body. (I still have the other half and have been thinking of how I'd like to use it; probably a neck-through design.) The bass was obviously not a kit (I don't know if any for EBG existed back then). Everything was from scratch, including some of the hardware; control plate, bridge, neck plate. The bass was completed in April '85 and its first usage was on a big band gig in May in the NY Fingerlakes region opening for Herbie Mann and his group.

Oh, there's no truss rod. I carved the necessary concavity along the long axis over a period of time. With an ebony fingerboard about 1/4 to 3/8 ths inch thick glued to a hard-maple neck, I doubted whether a truss rod would be able to have much of an effect on flexing the neck, so I decided not to use one. I still play this bass on 80 to 90% of my gigs where I play EBG. I changed the pickup from a passive Dimarzio to active EMGs 7 or 8 years ago and put Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat strings on it about 3 years ago.

Its an interesting process that you'll thoroughly enjoy. Have fun.

Lloyd Howard

waseok · #6 12-20-2007, 11:14 AM

You used same strings for 3 years?

slaptastical · #7 12-20-2007, 04:48 PM

Hi again,
Thanks for the help everyone, looks like it'll be a safer bet to stick with the neck through design I think. And I'll definitley do some reading up. This is the website Ive been looking at and its been pretty helpful so far.

http://members.lycos.nl/ajgp/guitars.html

Ok, so here is my next question...
How important is it to put a truss rod in, as you mentioned you didn't bother as you thought the wood would be strong enough.
Also, for a neck through there's obviously going to be a great long piece of wood running the length of the bass, so...... what is the best would for this and is it better as a single piece or a couple of different types alligned together?
Thanks again..

SDB Guitars · #8 12-20-2007, 05:00 PM

Having a truss rod is very important... necessary to compensate for the differences in seasonal wood expansion what can warp your neck

Nelson Guitars · #9 12-20-2007, 06:09 PM

Not only seasonal changes but tension multiplied by time will do nothing but raise that neck.

Greg N

lhoward · #10 12-20-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waseok

You used same strings for 3 years?

So far.

After a couple months, they 'settled in' and have been great to play. They still have a little more high end response compared to LaBella Deep Talkin' or D'Addario Chromes and seem to be lower tension. I used the Chromes on this fretless initially. Over the years I've also tried some round-wound (Kaman Kamflon(sp?), D'Addario's (and their half rounds). The LaBella's are on a Yamaha fretless I bought about ten months ago and although I like them, I think that, overall, I prefer the Jazz Flats. I've played double bass for 42 years and perhaps that explains why I don't have a problem with using the strings for long periods. (Round-wounds on a fretted bass are a different story.) At about $44 a set, TI Jazz Flats are not a cheap EBG string. In comparison, a TI Spirocore set for double bass runs about $140 and some other brands can be as much as $300 a set.

I've auditioned a number of other fretless basses in recent years and I still prefer mine. I think I'd also be happy with a Warwick Corvette or Thumb fretless.

Lloyd Howard

lhoward · #11 12-20-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaptastical

Hi again,
Thanks for the help everyone, looks like it'll be a safer bet to stick with the neck through design I think. And I'll definitley do some reading up. This is the website Ive been looking at and its been pretty helpful so far.

http://members.lycos.nl/ajgp/guitars.html

Ok, so here is my next question...
How important is it to put a truss rod in, as you mentioned you didn't bother as you thought the wood would be strong enough.
Also, for a neck through there's obviously going to be a great long piece of wood running the length of the bass, so...... what is the best would for this and is it better as a single piece or a couple of different types alligned together?
Thanks again..

Just a comment on the neck I built. I used hard maple with the grain parallel to the long axis both from the top looking down and from the side which helps provide dimensional stability. I was really picky about the piece of wood I chose to have this quality. The ebony I used has really minimal flex due to the relatively light tension of EBG strings considering the thickness of the fingerboard. The strings subtend a shallow angle with the neck so that the perpendicular component of the pull on the neck is not very high. In 24 years, I've not detected any dimensional change in the neck/fingerboard (FYI, I don't let it sit in sunlight or near heat sources which could heat up the wood).

To better understand this, a visit to a hardwoods vendor and checking the flex in these types of wood of suitable dimensions would demonstrate the much higher stiffness compared to necks that do have a truss rod. I would say that the truss rod is a necessary consideration for fretted basses for all the reasons you do truss rod adjustments. As an example, a Travis Bean TB2000 bass uses aircraft grade aluminum for the neck and has no truss rod. I've owned one since the early 80s and as far as I can tell, there's no flex from string tension on that bass. However, the neck isn't concave enough for my liking and the neck is not adjustable on this bass. So I use a little higher action to compensate. That's the only drawback with that very excellent bass.

I think EBGs, fretted and fretless, are designed so that the neck has a degree of flex so that adjustments can be made. There are pros and cons of any design theory and I think modern necks have their own unique problems as a result. In contrast, necks for double basses are not designed to be adjustable, but rather the 'adjustment' is built into the neck when a new fingerboard is fitted and carved for the instrument.

Lloyd Howard

Dirk Diggler · #12 12-21-2007, 11:31 PM

Truss rod is mandatory, they are not that expensive. Also if you aren't sure you can rout a straight line then you have other issues to deal with. Seriously it's not that tough, worst case scenario you adjust it once and never have to touch it again.

Good luck,
Dirk

**Rodent** · #13 12-22-2007, 08:21 AM

unless you plan to have a neck that is as thick as an upright bass, you will need to use a trussrod (unless you're going for that whole Wishbass vibe)

you should also purchase your wood already dry unless you have experience miling your own wood. even dry wood from a lumber store will need to acclimate some to your shop

I'll be one to vote for taking a bolt-on neck approach as easier than a neck-thru. here's two points to consider:

* if you make a major mistake while learning, simply build yourself a new neck ... but your body will still be OK for use with the new neck

* accurately compensating for the neck alignment angle relative to the body face can be difficult for someone who is also learning the basics of woodworking. if you get it wrong, it's near impossible to fix on a neck-thru. this is not something you compensate for when building a bolt-on ... if compensation is required, it is taken care of as part of the set-up process by making use of a neck shim

since most of the routing templates you'll need are readily available from many sources, the only difficult part with using them is to use them with precision ... and if one can't use a routing template with precision, then how can they be expected to make a neck that will be playable

just my 2 Indian Rupees,

R