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07-30-2010, 01:56 AM
|  | **** | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: west coast | | | BOOKMATCHED QUESTION
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For the sake of argument let's say quilted maple has the illusion of bieng 3-dimensional by way of dark and light features "tricking" the eye and giving the appearance of lighting and shadows.
Why is it that under certain light conditions/viewing angles the two sides of a bookmatched cap can appear to have the same shading, and in others the exact opposite??
If this doesn't make sense I can try to post some pics.
Just Curious,
LPB
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07-30-2010, 04:38 AM
| | | | the only explanation i can think of is that, (if i can word this right) since your cutting the wood, the patterns (although very similar) still vary from each other a slight bit. |
07-30-2010, 06:30 AM
| | Registered User
Luthier of Michael Wayne Instruments, Shop Manager ChromeDomeMusic | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cincinnati OH | | | Distance and light are what you are noticing. Up close your eye will not capture enough light to get the full effect as from about ~20'. The type of light will also change the appearance. Sodium light will be different than halogen, sun, magnesium, fluorescent, etc...
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Originally Posted by christw  My hair is ready. | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclogic geeeeeez Sometimes you should put a "common sense dictates NOT doing this" disclaimer | |
07-30-2010, 07:28 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NSB Central Florida | | | IIRC when quilted or flame maple is bookmatched the figure is mirror imaged. So the direction of the grain will be opposite to each other(i.e. if the fibers are flowing down on one side the otherside will be flowing up). Difficult to explain and also why some oldtimers (and perfectionists alike) prefer slip-matching, which is a lot harder to pull off successfully.
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07-30-2010, 07:34 AM
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Shawn Ball - Owner, SDB Guitars | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID | | Quilted maple has curly grain. Look at the wood fibers, and note that they are not perfectly straight. What you are seeing when you move the wood to different angles is the differences in reflective properties of the different variations of curl in the grain.
Note the logs in the picture below - those are curly maple logs. The ones at the very top will be "flame maple" when ripped, the lower ones, that look blistered will be "quilted maple". Check out how the wood is actually bumpy on the outside edge? That is the actual grain of the wood having a wavy pattern to it. When you cut a board out of that length-wise, you get the effect of the 3D pattern you are talking about. You are slicing through the bumps, so within your flat plane of the board are grain variations moving "in and out" of the board, causing different reflective properties.
The reason that bookmatched halves sometimes look to have an opposing pattern is that they do - when you slice through the board, grain that is curling up toward you in one half is actually curling away from you in the opposite half. How the grain stands out is mostly a matter of the angle you are viewing them from, so they reflect a certain way. Change the angle, and the reflection you see changes, too.
Does that make any sense? I hope I explained it well... 
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07-30-2010, 07:36 AM
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Shawn Ball - Owner, SDB Guitars | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID | | Dammit, took too long to post! Ruckus beat me to the explanation.
Good thing I included a picture! 
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07-30-2010, 08:08 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NSB Central Florida | | Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB Guitars Dammit, took too long to post! Ruckus beat me to the explanation.
Good thing I included a picture! | Well you definitely explained it WAY better then I did. 
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07-30-2010, 09:56 AM
| | | | this would be a book matched question - noitseuq dehctam koob a eb bluow siht
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Originally Posted by Beej
ninefinger read my mind... A 32 foot scale bass? Who's going to play it? 90 foot jesus?
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07-30-2010, 10:16 AM
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Luthier of Michael Wayne Instruments, Shop Manager ChromeDomeMusic | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cincinnati OH | | | Awesome!emosewA
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Originally Posted by christw My hair is ready. | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclogic geeeeeez Sometimes you should put a "common sense dictates NOT doing this" disclaimer | |
07-30-2010, 10:33 AM
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Shawn Ball - Owner, SDB Guitars | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID | | | LOL...LOL
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SDB Guitars - Turning exotic woods into sawdust and firewood scraps since 2002...
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07-30-2010, 10:47 AM
|  | Über on my mind | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Milan, Kuala Lumpur | | Quote:
Originally Posted by vbasscustom this would be a book matched question - noitseuq dehctam koob a eb bluow siht | super-  ! |
07-30-2010, 11:01 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germantown, Louisville KY USA | |
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07-30-2010, 11:05 AM
| | | yeah, well i used what what available at the time, so shut up... 
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Originally Posted by Beej
ninefinger read my mind... A 32 foot scale bass? Who's going to play it? 90 foot jesus?
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07-30-2010, 11:12 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germantown, Louisville KY USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by vbasscustom yeah, well i used what what available at the time, so shut up... | LOL!!! Who was talkin?
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07-30-2010, 01:06 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canadia | | | You know, I did little for you, for little did I know you... |
07-30-2010, 01:17 PM
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Luthier of Michael Wayne Instruments, Shop Manager ChromeDomeMusic | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cincinnati OH | | | racecar
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__________________ Blunt: a:abrupt in speech; b:being direct Quote:
Originally Posted by christw My hair is ready. | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclogic geeeeeez Sometimes you should put a "common sense dictates NOT doing this" disclaimer | |
07-30-2010, 01:26 PM
|  | Veteran Dispenser | | Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Newton, Mass | | Great picture of the logs, Shawn.
I have often wondered how loggers and sawmills identify the trees that will yield different figures of wood that get turned into to beautiful necks and tops.
I'll keep an eye on the Norway Maple in my back yard for any blistering for all you luthiers.
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07-30-2010, 03:03 PM
| | **** | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: west coast | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckus_Instrmts IIRC when quilted or flame maple is bookmatched the figure is mirror imaged. So the direction of the grain will be opposite to each other(i.e. if the fibers are flowing down on one side the otherside will be flowing up). Difficult to explain and also why some oldtimers (and perfectionists alike) prefer slip-matching, which is a lot harder to pull off successfully. | So why is it that the two sides react differently, in otherwards, sometimes the quilts appear to flow in and out together, and other times they're opposite. If one side reversed and appeared to be flowing out instead of in wouldn't the other side do the opposite? In certain situations the back of my bass will actually be flowing the same direction on one end and gradually transitioning to being the opposite on the other end. I have a feeling it could involve interplay between two different light sources maybe, I'll post a picture when I get a chance maybe.
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RIP Jimmy
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07-30-2010, 03:05 PM
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Luthier of Michael Wayne Instruments, Shop Manager ChromeDomeMusic | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cincinnati OH | | | Geometry. If you are off-center of the ripple one side will be deep and the other shallow. And also optical illusion. Keep looking and you will see pairs that are inverse as well as equal.
__________________ Blunt: a:abrupt in speech; b:being direct Quote:
Originally Posted by christw My hair is ready. | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclogic geeeeeez Sometimes you should put a "common sense dictates NOT doing this" disclaimer | |
07-30-2010, 03:13 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB Guitars The reason that bookmatched halves sometimes look to have an opposing pattern is that they do - when you slice through the board, grain that is curling up toward you in one half is actually curling away from you in the opposite half. How the grain stands out is mostly a matter of the angle you are viewing them from, so they reflect a certain way. Change the angle, and the reflection you see changes, too. | Learned that the hard way on this music desk (piano part). I should have slipmatched it. Oh well, toner to the rescue....  | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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