Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!

[octaedro7]

Those are not nasty screws, they have served well for decades. They are going to look and work perfectly fine. If you want threaded inserts I have a UK supplier with which I had a great experience, broad catalog, good price and fast shipping. Let me know if you're interested.
Regarding the layout, IMHO either go for only 4 (that's the one I think will look the most elegant) or find another layout for 5. As said, mechanically 4 screws are totally up to the job.

[E.J. T.N.T.]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

What d'ya guys thinks? Would this neck bolt layout be okay? I'm about to start drilling...

I would go for even more than 5. Something more in line with Ritter basses as seen here:

http://www.ritter-basses.com/images/...oya/roya04.jpg

http://www.ritter-basses.com/instrum...2/1201-p-2.jpg

http://www.ritter-basses.com/instrum...1/1151-p-3.jpg

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by octaedro7

Those are not nasty screws, they have served well for decades. They are going to look and work perfectly fine. If you want threaded inserts I have a UK supplier with which I had a great experience, broad catalog, good price and fast shipping. Let me know if you're interested.
Regarding the layout, IMHO either go for only 4 (that's the one I think will look the most elegant) or find another layout for 5. As said, mechanically 4 screws are totally up to the job.

Thanks, my thought too... and about the number of screws..

Originally Posted by E.J. T.N.T.

I would go for even more than 5. Something more in line with Ritter basses as seen here:

http://www.ritter-basses.com/images/...oya/roya04.jpg

http://www.ritter-basses.com/instrum...2/1201-p-2.jpg

http://www.ritter-basses.com/instrum...1/1151-p-3.jpg

... too late.. both are true: four is enough, more would be cool. I like the harmony and look of 5 bolts together with five strings (and since they're string through body they will show on the back). But I cannot accomodate more than 5, so the Ritter-style is not doable.

But I already finished drilling and I've mounted the neck. I'll update the thread soon.

[T-34]

Originally Posted by octaedro7

If you want threaded inserts I have a UK supplier with which I had a great experience, broad catalog, good price and fast shipping. Let me know if you're interested.

Sorry to hijack Rob's thread for my own use but, I am interested by your UK supplier

[Prostheta]

Originally Posted by octaedro7

Those are not nasty screws, they have served well for decades. They are going to look and work perfectly fine. If you want threaded inserts I have a UK supplier with which I had a great experience, broad catalog, good price and fast shipping. Let me know if you're interested.
Regarding the layout, IMHO either go for only 4 (that's the one I think will look the most elegant) or find another layout for 5. As said, mechanically 4 screws are totally up to the job.

I don't mean to turn this into any kind of debate as I am sure this has been done to death elsewhere in a far better setting by cleverer and more persistent people than myself. However I am steadfastly of the opinion that the whole ancient throwback thing with neck screws (originating from Fender Camp Cheap) is somewhat of a silly thing to maintain by force of habit or tradition. Inasmuch as they may have served well for decades, so has propping doors in the workshop open with fire extinguishers or using a lump of wood as a hammer. Perhaps it serves well, but it certainly isn't the best way of going about things. I just prefer to focus on meeting the needs of the task as best as possible rather than settling for "good enough".

In custom instruments we can easily spent a few pennies more on better parts, whereas in a production environmental (again, stemming from Fender Camp Cheap) those few pennies over a run of several thousand economically-pressuring instruments could amount to a production manager not getting his yearly BMW upgrade or silk underwear.

I implore you in the name of all that is rear wheel drive and silky against your manbits, rethink those neck screws. They're not big and they're certainly not clever.

Unless that decision means you get a bottle of vintage Scotch at the yearly company backslap.

[roberthabraken]

There's not a single reason _why_ not to use them in your post... only a rant why I shouldn't be conservative. I do not feel like rethinking anything on my build based on such replies.

I feel it is a suitable solution. Those inserts are overkill in a way. Five screws that will be screwed in only twice (yesterday for the test and one time when finishing the instrument) are suitable for the job in every way.

If you like to re-attach your neck every other week, than I think inserts would be better merely because the durability of the threads.

[Prostheta]

Ah, just a bit of dry sarcasm Rob. Historically the only reason we use screws is because "that is how it has always been done" and the reason for that is because of Fender's cost-cutting economical solutions in making the Tele a quick cheap mass-production product, and that they were designed to have replaceable/repairable necks. If the neck is going to be attached once, perhaps a set-neck build is in your near future? (not trying to say you need to make more basses or anything *cough*)

The post wasn't directed at yourself or even octaedro7....I am just amazed that people don't use better neck retention hardware rather than the assembly-line geared wood screw method. Since then (1950 or so?) we have also discovered that cigarettes cause cancer and that we shouldn't eat yellow snow. If Leo Fender used nails I am sure I would be writing this post questioning their continued use.

By all means use the screws Rob, I am just having one of those days where I should be hitting myself over the head with a keyboard instead of trying to gently poke my fingers through it.

[HaMMerHeD]

I like stainless 1/4-20 allen head bolts with brass inserts and 1/2" stainless spring washers as ferrules. The bolts, inserts, and washers are inexpensive and locally available. The bolts come in a variety of lengths, so I can contour the body heel without having to worry about screws being too long.

I don't do it because I want to detach the necks frequently. I do it because it is a more flexible solution than ye olde fixed-length wood screw.

[roberthabraken]

For now, I'll use screws. Updating to inserts is always possible, so if I feel like it later on, I can do so.

Onto the build...:


I worked on the neck profile a bit, and although it's getting close, I'm still not satisfied. It still is too much of a D-shape. I don't want a C-shape, but it does need to be more towards a C-shape from where it's now. The current state of the neck now looks like this:



Needing a break from the neck shaping, I turned to the neck joint. First, figuring this out like drill size, location and order:



I first marked the locations of the neck screws from the inside of the pocket (easier to reference, since I have a one piece body under the top it's a bit harder to determine the center line as a reference for any measurements). Then I drilled from within the neck pocket to the back of the body with a 1.5 mm drill bit. This gave me little guides for the ferrule holes

I first used a 16 mm brad bit for the 15 mm ferrules but I didn't like the result, so I went to the hobby store for a 15 mm forstner bit and I think it's worth every penny! The result is very clean and the ferrule just pops in, really nice. Didn't work with this type of bit yet, but I love'em! So, an action shot of the ferrule hole drilling:



.. and the result, very clean:



After drilling these holes, I used the marks made by the point of the forstner bit to center the drill for the screw holes. I drilled the 3 mm holes right through body and neck at the same time. Then, I re-drilled the holes in the body to 4 mm. Installation went perfect and I like the result a lot:



Of course, we need a close up:



It does look a bit dirty around the screws and ferrules, but that's the candle wax I used to help the screws a bit. I can assure you, with the right measurements and drilling, using any kind of wax, the screws drive in perfectly and do not bind or snap at all.

She's coming together nicely:



Next step will probably be the bridge (string through!?), followed by wiring holes, pickup attachment screw holes and the tuner holes. Then, I'll drill the electronics cavity cover attachment holes, neck strap holes and input hole. Shouldn't forget the pickguard attachment screw holes too.

[funkafied]

Candle wax, so good to know, wish I had that info before I snapped a screw when putting a neck on! I think this bass is looking great, I like how the rear of the scratch plate seems to mirror the shape of the upper horn, very nice. Personally I like the idea of a string through bass, mostly for aesthetic reasons, maybe better to have them and not use them rather than not have them and be wanting them IMO.

[Prostheta]

Candle wax is also very useful to run your fret saw through, ensuring smooth and free-er cutting. Shame it junks up on some of the finer dusts and phenolics.

[wraub]

Definitely still impressive.

Have to say, though, that i am not feeling the red. Probably just me, but that wood seems to call out either for a simple, natural look, or an over the top grain filled and sanded, artistically colorful and groovy thing, man. If you know what I mean.

Regardless, still looking very cool.

wraub

[Splods]

That is nice, the pickguard reminds me of the Warwick Trujillio signature.

[roberthabraken]

Thanks guys, not sure about the red either, but te pg is gonna go on there for sure!

I measured and marked the bridge position, I will double check everything and drill later on. But I discovered that my string through ferrules from Hipshot are 10.50 mm.. What size is that? How can you drill a hole that size? Or am I missing something?

[Prostheta]

Imperial sizes? Are you referring to the lip or the insert's milled edges?

[Plantfood]

Stick with the red! It seems like everyone is doing a natural finish lately. The red is going to put this over the top of awesome! Red red red red!!!!!!

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Imperial sizes? Are you referring to the lip or the insert's milled edges?

The lips are of no concern, because they lay on top of the body. I am referring to the outer size of the part that should fit into the body.

Imperial could be.. but I cannot figure out what size. I measured 10.50 mm (exactly!), which translates to about 0.41 inch. If anyone knows what 'standard' size that is, please let me know.

On the other hand, maybe you should drill 11 mm (also an odd size btw) and the extra 0.5 mm of play is for the finish. Don't know.

These are the ones I'm talking about:

http://store.hipshotproducts.com/car...t_detail&p=286

Originally Posted by Plantfood

Stick with the red! It seems like everyone is doing a natural finish lately. The red is going to put this over the top of awesome! Red red red red!!!!!!

Good point ... and exactly the reason why I considered colouring it in the first place. I still do consider it, I'm just not sure because it looks great the way it is too.

I will order some red dye powder and do some tests. Based on my success rate with those tests, I will make my decision.

[Mister Know Not]

If you have the same as I do, I drilled 10 Mm holes and then they fit nicely.
I don't gleu them in, they will be held in place by the strings ofcause, and if you want to change the colour of your hard ware, say from gold to black, you can just pop in new ones.

My 2 euro cents

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Mister Know Not

If you have the same as I do, I drilled 10 Mm holes and then they fit nicely.
I don't gleu them in, they will be held in place by the strings ofcause, and if you want to change the colour of your hard ware, say from gold to black, you can just pop in new ones.

My 2 euro cents

Thank you, but I doubt they are the same. 10.5 will not fit into a 10 mm hole, but I will test it tonight.

I know you don't glue them in, the tension of the strings is enough to keep them in.

[Mister Know Not]

If they have tiny ribbeltjes on the side, they will go in the wood.
It'll fit.