Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!

[jay tay]

So the holes are approximately 0.2 mm wider than the ferrule, I would think that paint/lacquer, would close that gap?

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by jay tay

So the holes are approximately 0.2 mm wider than the ferrule, I would think that paint/lacquer, would close that gap?

Yes, but I plan to oil the bass and secondly it' about the space underneath the ferrules, not on the sides.

[pilotjones]

What's the OD on the flanges of those ferrules?

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

What's the OD on the flanges of those ferrules?

I think somewhere around 15 mm, but I'm not sure. I'll measure them when I'm in the shop next time.

[driftingupward]

I thought I had subbed this when you first started it but I haven't been getting any notices for it. Looking great! Can't wait to see it done. I'll have to go back and read what I've missed when I have time.

[pilotjones]

If those flanges are 15 mm and the counterbores are 10.7 mm, there is no way 50 pounds of string tension is going to permanently deform that contact ring of ash. I think ferrules are intended to have the tips floating in space, and I'd go with that.

[Ol'Bass'ead]

The tips arent hanging in air. They are connected solidly to the flange, which in turn connects solidly to the body under tension. If you put plastic washers on the shaft of the ferrule where they insulate the flange from the body, that is where I saw a problem. Ive always counter sunk my flanges into the body and kept them flush.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

If those flanges are 15 mm and the counterbores are 10.7 mm, there is no way 50 pounds of string tension is going to permanently deform that contact ring of ash. I think ferrules are intended to have the tips floating in space, and I'd go with that.

Thanks Pete, I needed to hear this from you I guess ... If you say the tension isn't going to pull the ferrules in, I believe you. I will measure the ferrules tonight, just for the record.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Ol'Bass'ead

The tips arent hanging in air. They are connected solidly to the flange, which in turn connects solidly to the body under tension. If you put plastic washers on the shaft of the ferrule where they insulate the flange from the body, that is where I saw a problem. Ive always counter sunk my flanges into the body and kept them flush.

I planned to put the washers in the hole underneath the ferrules to fill the gap there. I didn't mean to put washers around the shaft, insulating them from the body. If you would, I think you are right about the problem.

[roberthabraken]

Yesterday I did another carving session, concentrating mostly on the heel transition and volute part, but also on the 'roundness' of the neck profile, because it was still too close to being square.

You can see the transition is shorter, more abrupt, going quicker to the round shape of the neck profile, which I like better. You can also see the shape improved:



This is how I carve the neck. I use my router table utilizing the hole for the router bit to clamp it on the center of the table. It's not ideal, but it works. I need to make a jig for this next time:



And the finished neck from a few angles, only needs a finish sand. The second picture should give a good view on the profile:







I like the volute:



And the finished product!! I'm proud on how this neck turned out . I hope it plays well.




So what's left to do? I made a list, which should be exhaustive:

1. Headstock

a. design a logo
b. find a way to put it on the bass / headstock

2. Neck

a. file and sand the fret ends
b. fit nut (w/o string slots)

3. Finishing

a. finish sand complete bass
b. make dye / stain test piece
c. make oil / wipe on poly test piece
d. optional: dye body and hs top
e. oil complete bass except fb and binding

4. Installation

a. apply shielding tape
b. make pickup height tubes
c. mount all hardware on body except cavity cover
d. solder connections
e. test electric circuit
f. attach cavity cover and neck
g. weigh the bass

5. Round up

a. level frets
b. install strings
c. file nut
d. fine tune / setup bridge
e. setup pickup height

We're getting close!

[suraj]

This has been one of the coolest builds..!! The work you did on the neck is great and everything looks quite perfectly shaped..can't wait to see this thing done..red..!!

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by suraj

This has been one of the coolest builds..!! The work you did on the neck is great and everything looks quite perfectly shaped..can't wait to see this thing done..red..!!

Thank you suraj!! That's a great compliment. I like the neck profile too, although I am a bit unsecure about it. I feel like everybody else is making it much thinner or sloped near the edges. It's consistent and playable, but I do not have any comparison (I do not own a factory-built bass), maybe I should visit a music store and play some basses again.

[roberthabraken]

Tonight I did some minor things. Checked the profile and a few other details, measured the OD of the ferrule flanges (@Pete: it's 13.56 mm) and just thought about how I like it so far and what could be improved in any way. The neck pocket still is a bit wide, but if I wet the sides of the neck and the sides of the pocket (hoping to simulate the finish) it already fits a bit better. I would liked to have a very tight fit, but that's a passed opportunity. I think the ferrules would be okay anyhow, without any support (tried to make wooden washers, but the result wasn't up to my expectations), since everybody convinced me it shouldn't be a problem. I like the profile of the neck very much and I think it's finished, although I still feel others might take it a little further and have a more sloped profile towards the edges and maybe a thinner profile altogether. Mine is 21.35 mm at the first fret. Not sure if I keep it this way, but we'll see.

Lastly, I fit the nut. It's a bone nut, thinned out to fit in the slot. I removed the lower corners of the nut so it would fit over the binding:



This gives a nice effect; because of the matching colour, the nut and the binding blend into each other nicely:



Of course, it needs to be trimmed from the top as well, but I first wanted it to fit into the slot.

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

I like the neck profile too, although I am a bit unsecure about it. I feel like everybody else is making it much thinner or sloped near the edges. It's consistent and playable, but I do not have any comparison (I do not own a factory-built bass), maybe I should visit a music store and play some basses again.

Some reference.

Numbers are from bgavin's musician's reference spreadsheet, or from Dingwall's website. Wood, no frets.

[Prostheta]

To add to that, if you are going to compare in a shop, then the three "common" extremes I would try are a Warwick (chunky), Fender P (battish) and a modern Ibanez style which tend to be thin to the point of rubberneck territory.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

Some reference.

(...)

Numbers are from bgavin's musician's reference spreadsheet, or from Dingwall's website. Wood, no frets.

Thanks Pete, again, very informative. I am somewhat above the middle with the neck thickness. Seems good to me.

Originally Posted by Prostheta

To add to that, if you are going to compare in a shop, then the three "common" extremes I would try are a Warwick (chunky), Fender P (battish) and a modern Ibanez style which tend to be thin to the point of rubberneck territory.

Thanks Prostheta. I like the Fender territory most, leaning to the Ibanez side. I must say the profile of your Carl Thompson inspired build looks sleek! Do you have a picture of the neck where the profile is visible somewhat better?

Besides the thickness, I have most doubts about the actual shape of the curve. It's hard to find some good references and your build seems a flatter curve than mine. Both are okay probably, but I left my previous neck too chunky, so I am looking for an improvement on this one. Next to that I do not want to ruin a perfectly good neck by going too far...

[Hopkins]

I usually keep carving until it feels good, why bother trying to make it match someone elses profile

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Hopkins

I usually keep carving until it feels good, why bother trying to make it match someone elses profile

That's not the point, it's a bit hard to explain since English isn't my native language, but I'll try again:

I want a neck profile that's commonly accepted. If I ever launch my own official brand, I need to make necks other bassists like as well. My last bass got the comment from a luthier nearby that the neck could have been more sleek. It felt like if I stopped carving too soon. So now, I am looking for a reference.

[Prostheta]

I can understand the motivation. Any profile you use will end up being compared to another ("oh, that's too Fender-y" or "I hate thin necks!") and there are as many preferences as there are bassists. A happy medium is a nice idea however you should do with the personality of the bass range. Take Warwick for example. They have batty necks which go with the territory, the same as vintage Fenders. Modern Ibanez style is thin-flat for the most part. Whatever defines your instrument feel should probably correspondingly show in the profile. Vintage-y fat and toneful necks would maybe dictate fat and solid. Modern speedy instruments the opposite (although this isn't always the correct stereotype).

Perhaps your statement of "It felt like if I stopped carving too soon." is the key here. Keep carving until your hands tell you it's time to stop.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

(..)

Perhaps your statement of "It felt like if I stopped carving too soon." is the key here. Keep carving until your hands tell you it's time to stop.

That's a good one


Onto the build: tonight I did a small stain test!

First, I wanted a reference piece with a red only stain (because it's easier to get a consistent finish that way). As you can see, it's a really flat finish. It doesn't show of the nice flames the Maple has:



Then I did a test on the former body laminate test piece, first dyed it black, sand back and stain it red afterwards. I immediately noticed two things:

• The black stain is sucked in on the sides of the Swamp Ash body very aggressively, creating a much darker tone with the same amount of stain; which is also harder to sand back afterwards.
• I sanded the top of the Maple too smooth and didn't wet it enough in the first place, so it didn't take the stain (both black and red) as good as I'd hoped.

I also made some marks by spilling an extra dot of red stain on there, creating a lighter area when trying to whipe that off. But it's a test piece, so it only helps me to get some experience. But you can clearily see the grain of the Swamp Ash pops out nicely and the colour of the finished red is also better (less orange / bright) opposed to the red only example:



Then I did another test piece. The wood was prepared better (sanded and wetted enough) and it was easier to sand the black stain back consistently, due to the flat surface. I also applied more layers of red. I think the grain shows well on this (furthermore unfinished) test piece and I think the oil / varnish will really make it pop:



One thing I did not manage to do is to keep the sides clean. I taped them off but the coloured water got under there anyway. Does anyone have some advice for me how to only stain the top? This is something I would like to do with the headstok. Maybe I need to seal the sides first with some sealer, but I do not have any experience on that yet.

I think the last test piece has the perfect colour and the grain shows very well. The only drawback is that I find it very hard to get a consistent result and that the sides of the Swamp Ash are a bit hard on me. Also, I'd have to solve the issue of not colouring the sides of the headstock. Taking all this into account, a clear oil finish would be far less adventurous and I think that might be the safest option. But I do like the red (imagine the white pearl pickguard on there!)...