Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design! - Page 45

roberthabraken · #**881** 12-21-2012, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suraj

This bass is looking absolutely fantastic..!! I have a question for you, are you having any trouble with your wooden cavity cover rapidly warping ? The ash cover plates for my bass tend to move everyday..!! they're installed on the bass right now. The inside of the cavity is dryer than the outside, so it warps a little every now and then. Just wanted to know if your going through something similar.

Thanks suraj!

I do not have issues with the ash cover, yet. The wood is in my shop for over a year and it was dry enough when it arrived as well. Since I cut the cover I store it stickered and it hasn't moved since (maybe 0.1 mm but not noticeable if any way).

Not sure what it will do when it is on the bass. I think that if you tape off the back with copper and seal the other side with finish, it should be kept stable. Not sure if it is really te difference in moisture content inside and outside the cavity (I doubt that). Most of the times it's because the moisture can only escape on one side.. How did you finish the inside of the cover?

Btw, my mahogany cover of the same thickness on my first bass hasn't moved since either. It has the same thickness (6 mm). What is the thickness of your covers?

suraj · #**882** 12-21-2012, 06:36 AM

The ash I used was lying in my garage for a year before I used it too. When stickered it remains flat, but anything else warps it. My covers are about 5mm thick. I guess your right about the unequal moisture escaping from the opposite sides of the covers. There is no finish on them yet, but I will apply the finish when the covers are stickered and flat. I guess the finish will reduce warpage considerably. Thanks

Sorry for the derail, back to your thread.

roberthabraken · #**883** 12-21-2012, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suraj

The ash I used was lying in my garage for a year before I used it too. When stickered it remains flat, but anything else warps it. My covers are about 5mm thick. I guess your right about the unequal moisture escaping from the opposite sides of the covers. There is no finish on them yet, but I will apply the finish when the covers are stickered and flat. I guess the finish will reduce warpage considerably. Thanks

Sorry for the derail, back to your thread.

No problem, any discussion is welcome, and now I am warned too

RedMoses · #**884** 12-21-2012, 07:29 AM

I think you should go with the Initials on the Headstock and perhaps find a place on the body for you signature, if you wanted to be slick you could put it on the rear of the body, down side to that is it will only be seen by the player...

wraub · #**885** 12-22-2012, 10:03 AM

Perhaps offset the initials with the "h" lower than the "r" (but the letters still joined), put that on the headstock, and put the signature on the cavity cover?

wraub

Prostheta · #**886** 12-22-2012, 11:23 AM

The "handwritten" logo is decidedly linear which looks slightly out of keeping with the flowing curves over the rest of the instrument. The RH looks great on the headstock and I would be tempted to see what it looks like moved to the top right.

Prostheta · #**887** 12-22-2012, 11:28 AM

In fact, the RH might look a lot better saying "MJ5".

roberthabraken · #**888** 12-22-2012, 11:45 AM

That's so cool Prostheta!! I think as a logo I cannot combine those two, but the type on the headstock would be the solution. I really like your suggestion of the headstock!!

About the Habraken sign on the PG, thought about that too, but a decal would discolor over time, wouldn't it? I suppose I could engrave it with my Dremel and fill it with black paint or so.. The black layer sits to deep to use that.

Prostheta · #**889** 12-22-2012, 11:57 AM

Personally, I would have it laser engraved. Can't elucide more....need to go to sauna and drink beer. BBL.

roberthabraken · #**890** 12-22-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Personally, I would have it laser engraved. Can't elucide more....need to go to sauna and drink beer. BBL.

Have fun

Prostheta · #**891** 12-22-2012, 01:12 PM

Wonderful. The stuff of life. Walking out half dressed in -20°C weather to go sit in hot dry room at 90+°C drinking beer.

Okay, so I had a think. The pickguard idea is impractical in reality unless you want to recut a new one because it overlaps one of the screwholes (although not an essential one). Getting multi-ply pickguard material engraved by laser is no big job however it is debatable how clean the bottom of the cut would be on semi-reflective multicolour materials like the pearloid top layer. You'd need to ask somebody with a cutter more about that one. If the bottom of the cut was not clean and even, it could always be backfilled with black epoxy or black cyanoacrylate glue. Applying a layer of masking tape before laser cutting the logo would allow the backfilling to be applied, squeegee'd level and the tape pulled back to leave it clean. An adventure in itself which I guess could always be done after the rest of the instrument is complete. Not essential to the final processes you are in right now.

The headstock would be the most important to get done and dusted. Maple is an arse to get clean for inlaying, which is why I have specifically avoided it for several years in that respect. Last time was simple black pearl offset side blocks and I was never happy with the cleanliness of the edges of the Maple. Practice, perhaps?

A company with a laser cutter can happily make you an RH or MJ5 logo for relatively little money outlay. I have had Doug from this company do work for me over the years, however he is in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Rf7JomDDs

wraub · #**892** 12-22-2012, 01:58 PM

Definitely prefer Prostheta's suggestion for orientation of the initials on the headstock. Looks much better there.

Not really into the logo on the pickguard, actually. But if there, I definitely think you should lose the "guitars" part.

wraub

T-34 · #**893** 12-22-2012, 02:05 PM

Yeah, "guitars" is kind of unnecessary. Everybody sees its a (bass)guitar already

And trademark on the body or pickguard is so "eighties"

roberthabraken · #**894** 12-22-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Wonderful. The stuff of life. Walking out half dressed in -20°C weather to go sit in hot dry room at 90+°C drinking beer.

Okay, so I had a think. The pickguard idea is impractical in reality unless you want to recut a new one because it overlaps one of the screwholes (although not an essential one). Getting multi-ply pickguard material engraved by laser is no big job however it is debatable how clean the bottom of the cut would be on semi-reflective multicolour materials like the pearloid top layer. You'd need to ask somebody with a cutter more about that one. If the bottom of the cut was not clean and even, it could always be backfilled with black epoxy or black cyanoacrylate glue. Applying a layer of masking tape before laser cutting the logo would allow the backfilling to be applied, squeegee'd level and the tape pulled back to leave it clean. An adventure in itself which I guess could always be done after the rest of the instrument is complete. Not essential to the final processes you are in right now.

The headstock would be the most important to get done and dusted. Maple is an arse to get clean for inlaying, which is why I have specifically avoided it for several years in that respect. Last time was simple black pearl offset side blocks and I was never happy with the cleanliness of the edges of the Maple. Practice, perhaps?

A company with a laser cutter can happily make you an RH or MJ5 logo for relatively little money outlay. I have had Doug from this company do work for me over the years, however he is in the US.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Rf7JomDDs

Didn't spot the missing screw right away, but maybe I could work around it. Anyway, I should indeed laser engrave it, because my thinnest Dremel bit cannot cut lines that thin (and accurate of course). I thought it was small enough, but I checked and the lines of the signature are less than 0.8 mm thick in that size. I could use a round Dremel bit though and just let it touch the surface and do a backfill with black epoxy. But I don't think the outcome would look professional enough for me.

I definitely like your logo suggestion and I will overthink it. The inlay would be the first step from now on indeed. I am not really scared of inlaying into maple, if the shape isn't too complex and I pay enough attention. The dragon I did earlier this year in light wood came out good. But I would like a black outline and that would be difficult to do by hand. I'll see if I can find any guys like Doug in the neighbourhood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wraub

Definitely prefer Prostheta's suggestion for orientation of the initials on the headstock. Looks much better there.

wraub

Yes, that's certainly true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wraub

Not really into the logo on the pickguard, actually. But if there, I definitely think you should lose the "guitars" part.

wraub

I agree, the guitars part would be for on my website e.g...

roberthabraken · #**895** 12-22-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-34

Yeah, "guitars" is kind of unnecessary. Everybody sees its a (bass)guitar already

And trademark on the body or pickguard is so "eighties"

I felt I needed the addition on my website or on any place other than on the guitar, because my name is not, well, established...

And what's wrong with the eighties?

I'm from the eighties as well

Prostheta · #**896** 12-22-2012, 03:39 PM

One of my current flavours of the month was the Aria Pro II SB-Integra which had a logo on the body in that same position as the one suggested. In certain circumstances it is very tasteful. I saw that location and thought it looked like the only "linear" place on the body that this would work in....being 90° in opposition to the pickups just clicked. The font style perfectly light and elegant enough.

I think that the "fat" font for the headstock looks a little less stylish than it could be. Perhaps either the wrong font or overall weight. A bit too "Comic Sans"? If it were to say "MJ5" then the lettering would look less dominant in lower case....I had a play around on 1001freefonts.com using the Custom Text option and upper case is quite strident. The 5 is important "mj....5!!!" so that's how that came across.

Right. Too much beerfoolery tonight. Time to die, beers in the rain, Blade Runner reference, etc.

Oh, just thought. AC Guitars (great company) inlay their logo in an inlaid circle. Simple to cut using a Forstner bit and relaxes the stresses on trying to cut a perfect inlay in light wicky woods like Maple.
http://www.acguitars.co.uk

Hopkins · #**897** 12-23-2012, 10:01 AM

I'm not a fan of this. It makes it to busy on the bass side. I also don't care for horizontal logos on a 3/2 style headstock. What ever logo you choose IMHO needs to be perpendicular to the strings.

That laser engraved into the pick guard would look great.

Prostheta · #**898** 12-23-2012, 10:29 AM

Fair call, although most instruments are by themselves offset and in this case I don't see the busy-ness. The placement is in an island of space, and implies a completion of the curve suggested by the bass-side tuners. The way I see design is balancing or accentuating imbalance. Most basses say "top-forward" in their design, much the same way Rob's design does. This is a quirky build and difficult to balance for many reasons so I guess there will be a million different ideas, which in my opinion is all for the better. I just hope Rob can pierce through all of them with that which satisfies his own eyes!

In actuality I much prefer offset designs like Thunderbirds, RDs, Explorers, etc. That's a totally different show.

pilotjones · #**899** 12-23-2012, 01:10 PM

For my money, on a headstock, a logo is fine running axially if it's between the tuners, or alongside them as in a Fender headstock. But at the tip/top of the HS, as shown here, it should not be in line with the major axis, because this leads the eye right off the bass. It looks unfinished. Like an afterthought. In that position, I think perpendicular, or at least significantly angled, is better. It caps the instrument without directing attention away.

The Rh isn't doing it for me, both because of the font, and because the unexplained uppercase/lowercase only leaves unresolved questions. And it makes me think Rhesus monkeys.

I actually dig the font pairing in the other logo, even if the "GUITARS" is not necessary. That position not common, and makes me think of German basses, but I think it works OK there.

roberthabraken · #**900** 12-23-2012, 02:24 PM

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, still very useful and welcome. About the "Rh"-logo: the upper and lower case characters respectively are chosen because it looks so much better than two capitals. I picked that font because I need a more bold / heavy font face to make it suitable for inlaying (most contemporary fonts are just too narrow) and because I thought it fit my design (kind of bulky horns if you know what I mean, funky, round et cetera). But after reading all your reactions I guess it wasn't the best choice.

For my first bass, I did an inlay of a logo that I made up back then (I did not use it yet though):

But I think it's a bit simple. More of a single character from a certain font type then a real developed logo. And just a single letter doesn't say much, does it?

I still prefer my full name on there, and I am pleased with the Habraken-logo the most, the handwritten font and the modern clean upper case font complementing each other nicely (although the guitars part isn't necesary on the guitar itself). Also, I think it got the most positive feedback.

So I will let it sit for a while.. I need to make up my mind before I'll continue, because if I decide to inlay a logo, I need to do it before finishing. On the other hand, I can't wait too long, since the bass is already finish sanded I and want to finish it off...