Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

It's more that I would avoid any liquids near a dyed top regardless. I panicked! X'D

True, I tested it first, but I needed to know if the burst looked good (dark enough) when wet. And it did. Thanks for the warning though!

And now, some daylight pics:







I even think I can be happy with this. Sure there are some lessons learned, but I need a reason to build another one sometime again, won't I?

[miziomix]

Hey Rob,

Indeed the bass looks pretty good as is and you seem to liking it enough to keep it as is. You surely can be happy with it.

But you got us used to your uncompromising commitment to perfection, so I'll say this. I would sand it down and hit it again with all the might of a good lesson learned. You have a great advantage - it's your bass and you can redo the finish as many times as you like until it looks perfect to you. I know it's hard. But once you get started you will never look back. In the end, you will win this.

I just wanted to offer a different point of view Great build. You should be proud of yourself.

Happy new year!

Maurizio

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by miziomix

Hey Rob,

Indeed the bass looks pretty good as is and you seem to liking it enough to keep it as is. You surely can be happy with it.

But you got us used to your uncompromising commitment to perfection, so I'll say this. I would sand it down and hit it again with all the might of a good lesson learned. You have a great advantage - it's your bass and you can redo the finish as many times as you like until it looks perfect to you. I know it's hard. But once you get started you will never look back. In the end, you will win this.

I just wanted to offer a different point of view Great build. You should be proud of yourself.

Happy new year!

Maurizio

Happy new year to you too Maurizio! Thanks for your point of view. You are right about that, but on this very moment the feeling to keep this is stronger than to redo the top.

I do have another problem with hitting it again: due to the fact I had to sand it back twice already, the round over is getting a bit flat; if I want to sand more I need to redo that too.

[Prostheta]

Fair call Rob, shame that the roundover is preventing you from trying again. Having to fool around with re-applying a roundover is just too many steps back. One tearout from the Maple and you'd be swearing till your face goes deep red with a tidy dark black burst around the edges.

Time for a New Year's beer yet? Cheers and hyvää uutta vuotta kaikille!

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Fair call Rob, shame that the roundover is preventing you from trying again. Having to fool around with re-applying a roundover is just too many steps back. One tearout from the Maple and you'd be swearing till your face goes deep red with a tidy dark black burst around the edges.

Time for a New Year's beer yet? Cheers and hyvää uutta vuotta kaikille!

Lol, you're funny, but yes, I probably would .

About 11 hours left till midnight, so about 8 for a new year's beer, I have a large bottle of Chimay dark beer (1,5 L / 9%) waiting for us tonight

[Prostheta]

Ah, nice. We have two litres of JD, a bottle of Gentleman Jack, 7 bottles of Duvel and 12 bottles of Chimay blue. The hangover should last until well into next year.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Ah, nice. We have two litres of JD, a bottle of Gentleman Jack, 7 bottles of Duvel and 12 bottles of Chimay blue. The hangover should last until well into next year.

The one bottle of Chimay blue wasn't my entire stock , but that should guarantee a decent hangover indeed

Have a nice New Year's eve!

[Prostheta]

You too Rob. I think it is the least you deserve after the year of work put into this build. 52 pages? Crazy. I've not seen anything like it before. I just hope 2013 will see you starting a new build! Cheers.

[miziomix]

Yeah, fair call indeed Rob. and since over here it's midnight in about two hours, feel free to send that Chimay blue over to me LOL

[Lonnybass]

Hey Rob-

Judging by the photos of the black spots - it looks almost like they are revealing some marginal tearout of the grain (between the pickups) that wasn't flattened out during sanding, and the black wound up forming little tiny puddles.

Again, hard to say with absolute certainty from looking at a photo - but to my eyes, the dots appear to form straight lines that run in direct parallel to the flame.

It could just be an optical illusion, but it's possible that the sanding didn't get down to all the little crevices and some pores opened up.

Lonnybass

[Sahe_Bassist]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

I even think I can be happy with this. Sure there are some lessons learned, but I need a reason to build another one sometime again, won't I?

thats the spirit!

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Lonnybass

Hey Rob-

Judging by the photos of the black spots - it looks almost like they are revealing some marginal tearout of the grain (between the pickups) that wasn't flattened out during sanding, and the black wound up forming little tiny puddles.

Again, hard to say with absolute certainty from looking at a photo - but to my eyes, the dots appear to form straight lines that run in direct parallel to the flame.

It could just be an optical illusion, but it's possible that the sanding didn't get down to all the little crevices and some pores opened up.

Lonnybass

That's pretty much my theory too. The grain of this piece of maple runs perpendicular to the flames (which I think is always the case) and the dots are run outs into that grain from without the flames.

But I actually sanded it with a hard cork block as a sanding block using 120 grit, so it should be flat though. Than, I sanded it with 180 and 240 grit resp. to get the surface smooth. It could be though, that there are some cavities that are revealed, but I find this hard to believe, since I was really thorough. Weird thing is I never heard of someone having those, neither I have seen this. Should be more common then.

Or just bad luck with this specific piece of maple? Mind you, the Ash didn't have this habbit! Same technique, tested on two test pieces.

I think the stained top looks a bit like a more rough, vintage burst, with a little wear in it. Maybe the varnish makes it shine again, but it isn't that bad as it is right now too, depending on how you look at it.

Originally Posted by Sahe_Bassist

thats the spirit!

Originally Posted by miziomix

Yeah, fair call indeed Rob. and since over here it's midnight in about two hours, feel free to send that Chimay blue over to me LOL

Lol, too bad I never can get that bottle over in such a short time . Happy New Year to you too!

[roberthabraken]

I checked two other resources, still bothers me. First time I sanded it back to a level that's equal to both these resources:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u49jCIRNnmk

http://chrisbewick.com/telecastle/st...med-maple-top/

Second time I got way further than that and because there was a lot of red in the flames, they didn't look black, but reddish. But with more plain maple inbetween them than those guys had.

I looked up photos from my second try right after staining. The colour was much more bright and nice red. It still is okay, but not so cool as it was right after staining. If I left it then, I got a perfect results, but with a lot of black dots, that developed after 30 minutes. That's why I kept working the surface, rubbing them out (most of them / mostly). This made the burst edge weaker and the surface somewhat flat.

So, if I didn't had that specific problem, and left it there, I probably would have a lot better result. So I think I master the technique, but the dots make me ruin it. So to get over this, I need to fix the black dots mysterie..

Could it be that I not dissolved the particles enough? Or that my mix was too rich? Did I made the wood too wet?

Here you can see how far I sanded the body back the second time:



How it looked directly after applying the bright red stain:



And a close up of the first few minutes:



Pretty nice isn't it?

You know how it looks now (Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!) being the result of working those dots out. And I still have some left.

Can you tell anything more based on this new information? Many thanks in advance!

[pilotjones]

This whole lack dots thing is troubling. If it's a matter of insufficient mixing of the dye, I'd like to know how it should have been done instead.The fact that this is an oft-recommended procedure, and people haven't previously reported these problems, bothers me.

What solvent did you use for the black dye, and is it what is generally used?

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

This whole lack dots thing is troubling. If it's a matter of insufficient mixing of the dye, I'd like to know how it should have been done instead.The fact that this is an oft-recommended procedure, and people haven't previously reported these problems, bothers me.

What solvent did you use for the black dye, and is it what is generally used?

Exactly how I feel about it.

I used Clou powder stain (http://www.clou.co.za/powder%20stains.html) number 174 (black) and 154 (bright red).

I used hot water as a solvent, as recommended. Stirred it with a small spoon and let it cool a bit before applying. I let the black dry overnight, as suggested. The only difference is that they suggest to dissolve everything at once in a regular drinking glass. I didn't know yet (know I do) that you can keep this for extensive periods of time, so I dissolved a bit each time in a little water.

For the instructions, see http://www.clou.co.za/files/Colour%20Stains.pdf.

I obviously made a mistake, did something wrong, but still am not sure what...

[Prostheta]

I would hazard too rich since there was enough left to completely alter the tone of your first red coat.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

I would hazard too rich since there was enough left to completely alter the tone of your first red coat.

I found out that the tone changed because I blended in the black unsanded edges.

Second time I did not do that. I then used a different cloth for the red and for the burst.

So the colour mainly changed because I filled my cloth with both stains the first time.

That would, however, not make your statement false per se, but I think it needed clarification because I did not share this piece of info yet.

[Prostheta]

Ahhhhhh, okay.
Drunk yet? We're watching a Bond movie (might be Skyfall, not sure) and have metabolised much Gentleman Jack.

Cheers.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Ahhhhhh, okay.
Drunk yet? We're watching a Bond movie (might be Skyfall, not sure) and have metabolised much Gentleman Jack.

Cheers.

Cheers!

[roberthabraken]

Happy New Year to all of you!

I think I would be satisfied with the result, but got some white stains around the top where the water dried. I also find the colour a bit weak in some spots.

Do you think the whitish marks will disappear under the clear finish (they do when wet / naphtha'd)?? The weaker spots also are more bright when wet and you cannot see them then, but I am not sure if the clear coat will have the same effect..

Otherwise I have two options: sand back, remove almost all colour and solve whats left with water to get the colour out there (no black spots again) and only hit it with a bright red! Or I could apply bright red over the finish I have right now to make it pop again. Not sure that would work.

Sorry to keep the subject going but I shared almost every thought along the entire process of this bass and find your feedback very useful!!