Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!

[Prostheta]

You and your sanding sealer Lonny....hahahah :-D

[Lonnybass]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

You and your sanding sealer Lonny....hahahah :-D

I know right? I just put some in my coffee..

[Prostheta]

It was you that ruined my breakfast this morning! YOU HEATHEN!!

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Lonnybass

Totally right. Especially without a couple of sealer coats over the color, any sanding at this stage is a red-tinted recipe for disaster. Not only that, but if you try to get a smooth surface at this point, you're never going to build up a finish.

Focus solely on building up many streak-free coats so that you have a lot of room to work with when you're ready to level it all out. And don't worry about a rough feeling surface, the grain will fill as you go and it can all be smoothed to glass once it's cured.

Lonnybass

Thanks guys. Actually, the grain is already filled well, so I guess my varnish is thicker than what you're used or referening too, maybe. But I will build up some more level / smooth coats before leveling it out. Just needed to know what the best order is, because I'm, as you prolly know by now, not very experienced in the whole finishing process

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Prostheta

Put that sandpaper down or we'll come and take it off you. Get back in the room with the brush and varnish. Don't come out until you are finished.

There's a nice beer in the fridge waiting for you.

Since each layer needs to cure for 12 hours, I'd have to do one a day.. but I get the point

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Lonnybass

I know right? I just put some in my coffee..

Hahaha.. lol

[Lonnybass]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

Thanks guys. Actually, the grain is already filled well, so I guess my varnish is thicker than what you're used or referening too, maybe. But I will build up some more level / smooth coats before leveling it out. Just needed to know what the best order is, because I'm, as you prolly know by now, not very experienced in the whole finishing process

That's what we're here for my friend!

Not sure what you're using for a varnish - or what kinds of products you can get ahold of in the Netherlands - but I mix my varnish with mineral spirits and a few drops of Japan drier in an old soup can before applying.

I find that the addition of spirits allows me to more evenly apply multiple thin coats than having to deal with issues resulting from uneven application, runs/drips and longer tack times from thicker coats. And Japan drier can help speed up the curing process.

Just keep hitting it with coats - if you can get two or three thin ones on there each day through the weekend, you can do a LIGHT scuff sand and then reapply another set of topcoats early next week. Then, start drinking beer for three weeks because you're going to need to keep your mind occupied while the varnish hardens up.

Lonnybass

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Lonnybass

That's what we're here for my friend!

Not sure what you're using for a varnish - or what kinds of products you can get ahold of in the Netherlands - but I mix my varnish with mineral spirits and a few drops of Japan drier in an old soup can before applying.

I find that the addition of spirits allows me to more evenly apply multiple thin coats than having to deal with issues resulting from uneven application, runs/drips and longer tack times from thicker coats. And Japan drier can help speed up the curing process.

Just keep hitting it with coats - if you can get two or three thin ones on there each day through the weekend, you can do a LIGHT scuff sand and then reapply another set of topcoats early next week. Then, start drinking beer for three weeks because you're going to need to keep your mind occupied while the varnish hardens up.

Lonnybass

Yeah thanks! That's why I love TB

Well.. the can says "scratch resistant polyurethane varnish", no more info.. they have it in Satin and High Gloss. I used the satin. I also read somewhere that you can apply multiple layers of satin and after a light sand a high gloss layer, buffing it up. The first layers wouldn't benefit from being high gloss anyway. Didn't want to use high gloss to start with, because I think it reveals irregularities much more.

I will try to apply as thin layers as possible, second one already was thinner than the first. I do need to wait long enough in between the layers, I noticed, because if the underlying layer is still wet and a bit tacky, the new layer doesn't spread / even out that well. I do like this stuff by the way, because it levels so good that you get a very even finish even when applied with a brush. The brush streaks even out beautifully.

On the back of the body and neck I learned it needs about two weeks two cure enough to continue. The beers are a good idea to fill that gap . Hate the fact that I need to wait that long now I'm already that close.

[Lonnybass]

Actually you can use the two or three weeks of cure time to start planning your next bass!

Interesting that the product is labeled "polyurethane varnish." Here in the States, products are typically sold as polyurethane OR varnish.

Interestingly - and unfortunately - very little about what is on the label is accurate over here. For example, Minwax tung oil contains no tung oil. And most things marked "lemon oil" are actually scented petroleum products.

Next time, give a shot to using a high gloss finish even if you are ultimately going after a satin look. Some satin finishes contain dulling agents that can actually obscure grain as they minimize light reflectivity. Plus you'll have much greater flexibility in buffing to the satin sheen you want vs the one some chemist mixed for you.

The bass looks great. Also, take a look at the Lakland site as they have a red/black jazz bass with a flame top that matches yours quite nicely!

http://lakland.com/44-55-AJ.htm

Lonnybass

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

Yeah thanks! That's why I love TB

Well.. the can says "scratch resistant polyurethane varnish", no more info.. they have it in Satin and High Gloss. I used the satin. I also read somewhere that you can apply multiple layers of satin and after a light sand a high gloss layer, buffing it up. The first layers wouldn't benefit from being high gloss anyway. Didn't want to use high gloss to start with, because I think it reveals irregularities much more.

I will try to apply as thin layers as possible, second one already was thinner than the first. I do need to wait long enough in between the layers, I noticed, because if the underlying layer is still wet and a bit tacky, the new layer doesn't spread / even out that well. I do like this stuff by the way, because it levels so good that you get a very even finish even when applied with a brush. The brush streaks even out beautifully.

On the back of the body and neck I learned it needs about two weeks two cure enough to continue. The beers are a good idea to fill that gap . Hate the fact that I need to wait that long now I'm already that close.

The satin stuff will not really buff out to a high gloss because it has a matting agent in it. If you ever opened up a can of it before shaking it you will see the matting agent sitting at the bottom of the can separated from the regular gloss stuff floating at the top. This is true of every satin finish I have ever used (nitro, water based, ect.) so I assume it will be the same for that varnish you are using.

I have no idea how putting a gloss finish on top of a matte finish would work. I always use high gloss, because it only takes a little elbow grease to make it satin.

Edit: looks like Lonny beat me to it.

[Prostheta]

Who's trying to beat who here? Pshaw!

Anyway. Same as how a matte finish would look when wet or sweaty? I hate matte or satin finishes on production instruments because they end up burnished up to a gloss with use anyway.

Red wine head says nothing useful. Was too busy configuring my new Raspberry Pi as a NAS.

[roberthabraken]

So I'd better switch to gloss? Or too late for that now? I suppose, if the first layers contain a matting agent, a gloss top layer wouldn't have the desired effect because it won't remove what's already on there. On the other hand, a gloss finish is always applied over a matte surface anyway, in some respect (referring to the wooden surface itself).

This build learned me mostly I need to learn the most in the finishing area. Also very useful information

Btw: do you guys include the sides of the fb binding when applying clear coat? Or do you leave it unfinished?

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

So I'd better switch to gloss? Or too late for that now? I suppose, if the first layers contain a matting agent, a gloss top layer wouldn't have the desired effect because it won't remove what's already on there. On the other hand, a gloss finish is always applied over a matte surface anyway, in some respect (referring to the wooden surface itself).

This build learned me mostly I need to learn the most in the finishing area. Also very useful information

Btw: do you guys include the sides of the fb binding when applying clear coat? Or do you leave it unfinished?

It may work just fine, I honestly don't know. Switch to the gloss and see how it looks.

[Lonnybass]

Rob-

As long as you are using a gloss from the same product family as your satin, you should be completely fine. At this stage you only have a few thin coats on there (versus a full 10 to 12) so it's not like you have a heavy buildup of matting that you're trying to work against.

The benefit of the gloss will be threefold...

1) You'll have a much greater degree of control in getting the finish to a sheen you like.

2) You won't lose any depth/chatoyance in the grain pattern.

3) You'll be able to spot imperfections much easier as you go through the finishing cycle, improving your odds of being able to fix them!

Lonnybass

[JYBass]

I can't see any of your pictures.

Sad face...

[roberthabraken]

Check post 1070 and onwards for the latest pics. I deleted duplicates to save space. Or check my blog (see signature) for the full history.

Based on your recommendations I will buy the gloss varnish from the same brand and type of varnish and do some test with that to build up a better coat on the bass eventually.

Do I include the sides of the fb binding with the clear coat?

[Lonnybass]

Do I include the sides of the fb binding with the clear coat?[/quote]

You could, but you might run into some adhesion issues. If I were you, I'd mask the edge of the binding, and apply to the neck. Once the varnish has set up for a couple weeks, take the tape off, and use some steel wool and furniture wax to smooth off the edge of the binding and rub out the neck.

Lonnybass

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by Lonnybass

You could, but you might run into some adhesion issues. If I were you, I'd mask the edge of the binding, and apply to the neck. Once the varnish has set up for a couple weeks, take the tape off, and use some steel wool and furniture wax to smooth off the edge of the binding and rub out the neck.

Lonnybass

Thanks that's the tip I needed. I thought I'd better let the binding clean, but ran into the issue that I got a little step that's not very nice to feel when playing. Including the binding would remove it, but this is better.

[Lonnybass]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

Thanks that's the tip I needed. I thought I'd better let the binding clean, but ran into the issue that I got a little step that's not very nice to feel when playing. Including the binding would remove it, but this is better.

You'll definitely feel a ridge along the edge of the binding from the layers of varnish that have built up when you first removing the masking tape. But the steel wool/wax combo will work wonders in smoothing it to perfection, and it should take you all of five minutes to get the entire neck in good shape.

Lonnybass

[roberthabraken]

I'll bookmark that post Lonny.

The bass is currently drying from it's third coat of varnish, the first full coat and gloss this time. Hope it cures well and even, curious how it turns out. The two satin layers will have some effect on the gloss probably, but after a few more coats this should be a better finish than just a satin one!