Build Number 2: 4-string Fretless V

[HaMMerHeD]

For my second guitar build, I am making something for me. It will be a fretless 4-string offset-V bass designed for low F# B E A tuning on a 36" scale. It will, in fact, be the best bass for metal. I know a lot of people scoff at this kind of design, especially on a bass, but I like it, and this one is for me, so there it is. Currently, my plan is to apply silverleaf to the body bevels.

Yes, I know neckdive will be a problem to be addressed.

Specifications:

Mahogany body (painted metallic black, matching headstock)
Laminated maple and purpleheart neck (natural satin finish)
Ebony fingerboard (dyed black and epoxied)

Hipshot Type-A Bridge /w Graphtech piezo saddles
EMG 35TW pickups (x2)
Aguilar OBP-3TK/PP Pre-amp
Bartolinki MPB2-918 Piezo buffer/blend
18v on all systems
Hipshot HB6Y ultralite tuners


Here are my CAD body templates:






To help reduce neckdive, I have added the little body extension on the bass side. On this design, it goes up to about the 15th fret. I have played around with a lot of different configurations, and I have found that it looks really silly and badly balanced if it goes beyond the 15th. But with the strap connecting at the 15th, and the ultralight tuners, and the big mahogany body, and a nice wide bass strap, I am hoping that neck dive will be reduced to a manageable level.

I feel a bit weird about painting a mahogany body, but I did not select mahogany for its looks. I chose it for its price and its weight. Mahogany was just the best material for this particular job.

I'm going with "Heretic" as the name for this build. I've been practicing my wood carving, so I can put something interesting on the headstock this time. This is my first attempt:



Just a piece of red oak with an H carved in it and filled with white epoxy. It's not perfect, but give me a break, it's my first carving effort. I think the hardest part is going to be painting the headstock black and keeping the "inlay" white. I haven't quite worked that bit out yet. Suggestions would be awesome.

That's all I have to share right now. I'm waiting on a quote for the plus-sized mahogany body blank.

Thanks LC!

[bassy7]

Your epoxy filling inlay method should give you much neater edges on wood that doesn't have such an open grain structure like the oak. What wood will be on the surface of the headstock?

Good thinking on trying to reduce neck dive by extending the body a little on the bass side. You should also consider trying to use the lightest truss rod you can find, there is a thread that should reveal which one. Hipshot ultralight tuners- good choice there.
You might want to at least consider making the body on the heavier side to help with neck dive.

Hope you can make some progress on this soon- I am particularly interested because of the low tuning and 36" scale length.

[HaMMerHeD]

Thanks. On my next carving attempt, I am going to hit the board with a clear epoxy before I carve on it, see if that helps on the oak. The headstock will be of the same maple and purpleheart laminate that I am using for the neck.

The body is about 2" longer than a "normal" guitar offset V body, and being made of mahogany, I am hoping it is heavy enough to balance well, relative to how offset Vs normally balance.

[naja]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

Just a piece of red oak with an H carved in it and filled with white epoxy. It's not perfect, but give me a break, it's my first carving effort. I think the hardest part is going to be painting the headstock black and keeping the "inlay" white. I haven't quite worked that bit out yet. Suggestions would be awesome.

That's all I have to share right now. I'm waiting on a quote for the plus-sized mahogany body blank.

Thanks LC!

I think the inlay looks great with a little bit of "edge" to it. I think it adds to the look.

Could you maybe paint the headstock before filling the inlay? Or are you wanting the inlay to be flush?

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by naja

I think the inlay looks great with a little bit of "edge" to it. I think it adds to the look.

Could you maybe paint the headstock before filling the inlay? Or are you wanting the inlay to be flush?

Well, I could paint before I fill, but then sanding the epoxy residue from around the carved area would damage the paint. I have a few potential possibilities in mind, one of which is:

Paint the headstock
Print the carving template on a sticker
Affix the sticker to the headstock
Carve
Fill
Remove sticker
Let the epoxy cure
Poly coat the headstock

The only doubts I have about that process are from my own incompetence.

[LuckyBassPlayer]

Subbed, I'm curious to see how this is going to turn out:O

[miziomix]

Interesting and subbed.

Did you test how far to the left the neck extends with such a lay out? A strap lock at the 15th fret on a 36" neck might make the first few frets a bit uncomfortable to reach.

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by miziomix

Interesting and subbed.

Did you test how far to the left the neck extends with such a lay out? A strap lock at the 15th fret on a 36" neck might make the first few frets a bit uncomfortable to reach.

Not yet, but we'll see. I'm trying to get an MDF mockup made to test its geometry. I have to finish the neck/headstock design first.

[Beauchene Implements]

Sweet design, the body extension at the top of the fretboard will help with the balance I bet. I think you should make the covers flow more with the body shape but other than that I dig it.

[HaMMerHeD]

Thanks barnacle.

I came up with a headstock design that I like. It is based on the ESP F headstock:



And the full cheeseburger:



The CAD program shows it as 51.7" long, 15" wide, and puts the center of gravity of the body right in the center of the bridge pickup. With the neck attached, it shows the center of gravity right at the 22nd fret. Of course, that's with uniform thickness and materials, and no hardware, so who knows really.

[Legattabass]

Oh man, this is exciting to watch. Sub'd.

Wouldn't it be grand if TB luthiers started a "Best Bass for Metal" competition, so that any time the question comes up in the Basses forum, we could just link it to those threads...

Come to think of it, seeing what bonafide luthiers consider good designs for 'metal' (whatever that might mean) could help point us metal heads in the right direction, preferably AWAY from BC. Rich....

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by Legattabass

Oh man, this is exciting to watch. Sub'd.

Wouldn't it be grand if TB luthiers started a "Best Bass for Metal" competition, so that any time the question comes up in the Basses forum, we could just link it to those threads...

Come to think of it, seeing what bonafide luthiers consider good designs for 'metal' (whatever that might mean) could help point us metal heads in the right direction, preferably AWAY from BC. Rich....

Thanks, but I do like some BC Rich designs.

I look at the "best bass for metal" question as being the product of youthful over-exuberance and under-education in actual music. It is basically 2 questions in one: 1) What bass will get me noticed/laid? 2) And what bass will have the "metal" sound?

The answers (for better or worse) are 1) None (you're a bass player), and 2) Almost any (Hofner might be tricky). I saw a show with Toxic Holocaust as the opener, and dude was playing a beat-up white Fender P. Next band up was Dying Fetus, and he was playing a very nice ESP LTD B-1004 4 string. Next band up, dude was playing a Warwick Corvette 5-string. They all sounded just fine to me, but that night I felt that Sean Beasley of Dying Fetus owned his instrument in a way that the others simply didn't attempt.

Anyway...still waiting on the body blank.

[HaMMerHeD]

I'm still waiting on the body blank, so I've been in a holding pattern.

I spent some time going over Hipshot's dimension data for the Type A bridge and their HB6Y tuner, and I drew them in my crappy CAD program as well as I could given the lack of information in their documentation.

So to the best of my ability, here is what I came up with.





The neck is 1.625" wide at the nut, string spacing is 2.25" at the bridge, or .75" (19mm) between strings.

[pilotjones]

How would it look if the S-curve at the top of the headstock were replaced by a simple slight mild concave curve, which is bevel cut like the body?

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

How would it look if the S-curve at the top of the headstock were replaced by a simple slight mild concave curve, which is bevel cut like the body?

Hmm...



But then that made thet curved corners at the base of the HS look off to me...


Pretty sharp. Something too think about anyway.

[Murphys Law]

Best bass for Metal? I'm in!
I like the body shape, lets see how this works out!

[HaMMerHeD]

So I have my design all squared away, and I'll have the body blank soonish. The only problem is, I'm not sure about the best way to actually cut the body out of the blank. Obviously a lot of builders go the bandsaw + drum sander route, but I'm not sure that is the best option for this.

I'll need to make long, straight edges, and that is something I don't trust my skills with a band saw and drum sander to do. I could use a hand planer on the edges, but again my skills are not up to where they need to be with a hand planer to accomplish that. Also, I'm not sure what I would have to do as I got closer to the rounded bits on the body sides.

So my thought is this: use a router template to cut the body out. I can have a plastic template of the body outline cut by a local machine shop, and then use a 2" router bit (with a guide bearing of course) to cut the blank out. That would give me something close to a finished, smooth edge without relying too much on my skills with tools that are beyond my mastery.

Does this seem like a reasonable plan?

It would require that I purchase a new router, as my existing router supports only a 1/4" collet (and all of the 2" straight cut bits I can find have 1/2" shanks), but that router was cheap enough that I am not really offended by the idea. For a new router, I like the Porter-Cable 9690LR.

Is that a decent choice?

Thanks LC.

[Murphys Law]

The template+router methode is the way I made my bass with.
It works! You have to sand the edges a little of course to get rid of the router marks, but the shape is there...

[HaMMerHeD]

Thanks Murphy.

I imagine everyone is getting tired of looking at my crappy drawings, but I am a big believer in planning, so here are some more.

This is the overall design as I am going to build it:



I decided to go a different route with the headstock than I originally planned. This way, I will be able to bevel some edges, so it will better match the body, and just a hint of the neck laminations will be visible.

Here's the body back:

[HaMMerHeD]

After some delay, the body blank arrived today:





26"x17"x1.875" paint-grade 3-piece mahogany.