Crazy headless experiments from down under...

reverendrally · #1 06-14-2011, 06:27 AM

Not spent a lot of time on TB, but I love this luthier's corner. Thought you all might like to know about some crazy experiments I'm doing over here. I'm an electric and double player. Used to be pro, now semi pro. I've built a car, a custom bike and a few things like that, even sort of restored a bass many years back (drawing a long bow on the word restored) but never built a real bass before.

The initial plan; to build a 6 string headless bass with upright qualities. Unlined board, chambered body, tapewound strings and whole load of double thumpiness without too much of that nasty sustain electrics are famous for.

Then I let all my crazy ideas out of the bag.... all at once. Mmmm. I have a friend who is a part time luthier and a very good one. Course when he heard I wanted to build a bass he said, "bout time". However we both realised I needed to start a little smaller before shelling lots of spondoollies on $$$ bridges and pickups. I had a look round ebay and found a few cheap 4 string headless bridges and pickups and thought.... "why not build a two 4 strings first". So here is the spec.

BTW, I've called both basses "balance" coz I'm sick of neck diving 5 strings that weigh a ton (even if they sound great). Also, both basses will be made from local Australian timbers in an effort to care for the enviroment rather than just raping Sth East Asian forests for "pretty" bits.

1. Balance Horn; Imagine an EBMM 4 string only headless and with a more ergonomic body and a 2 octave neck. This is what it looks like...

Here is my 1:1 plan next to my P...

This will be a normal 4 string. Neck profile will be standard, it gets a strap horn, should pretty much be the same as your average MM sound wise (except no preamp)

Balance Evolve; Ok, so this is where things get truly crazy. Fingerboard extensions (ala Kubicki), weird neck profiles, NO strap horn, chambered body, minimal body.

HOWEVER; the construction between the two basses will be the same. Deep insert BO neck joint. SAME timber, strings, controls, bridge, finish, etc...

When both are finished I'll get my bass playing mates together and let them loose to compare. What works, What doesn't? What sounds better, what doesn't? From these two cheap instruments, I can build a 6 string with the best ideas and some slightly better hardware.

Anyhow, there it is. Enjoy the ride. Throw any qu at me.

Dirk Diggler · #2 06-14-2011, 08:04 AM

Well considering you don't like neck dive, I predict you will not like the 2nd design once completed. No upper horn is just screaming for neck dive, IMHO of course.
Good luck!
Dirk

miziomix · #3 06-14-2011, 08:28 AM

Cool. I'm afraid Dirk has a point though. The second design look rather neck dive friendly - or, unfriendly....whatever...

Have fun, post pictures

reverendrally · #4 06-14-2011, 04:23 PM

the second design has a strap hanger, if you look closely. It's not connected to the body though...

grisezd · #5 06-14-2011, 05:08 PM

On the neck there? I guess that it's not a problem if you don't wrap your thumb! Single cut players manage somehow, don't they?

reverendrally · #6 06-14-2011, 05:25 PM

yep. do you wrap your hand round the neck at the 12 fret? I don't.

miziomix · #7 06-14-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverendrally

the second design has a strap hanger, if you look closely. It's not connected to the body though...

Ah! I see it now. Cool

reverendrally · #8 06-14-2011, 08:29 PM

Well, I picked up the pickups today.

Two wilkinson licensed MM pickups. Look well made. What I don't get is what the 4 different wires do. So feel free to help me out here...

Black
Red
White
Yellow

I'm also trying to figure out what sort of truss rods to use. Any guidance there would be helpful.

BTW, here are the bridges I'm using. Cheap chinese things. There is one drama with them, but hopefully the supplier has a new one to me in the mail and it works out well. But at $48 each, I couldn't pass them up. I pray I don't live to regret it.

abarson · #9 06-15-2011, 10:38 AM

Check out R.M. Motolla's Libelllula design for an alternative method of hanging the instrument. Guaranteed zero neck dive.

Libellula Electric Upright Bass (EUB)

I'm guessing that the pickup wiring is the same as Seymour Duncan.

Wiring Diagram

miziomix · #10 06-15-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverendrally

....
BTW, here are the bridges I'm using. Cheap chinese things. There is one drama with them, but hopefully the supplier has a new one to me in the mail and it works out well. But at $48 each, I couldn't pass them up. I pray I don't live to regret it.

Curious to see how it works out with that bridge. I saw them on ebay and decided to pass.
Don't mean to be harsh, but in ten years in Asia and three in China whatever I bough that was made in China invariably ended up in the trash bin. Until I finally got it. I sincerely hope this time it's different

reverendrally · #11 06-15-2011, 05:11 PM

abarson - interesting, thanx for that.

miziomix - I totally know what you mean. So far I had one turn up without a gear on the E tuner. The supplier is posting me another one now. However, in defence of the design, it's not the traditional steinburger pulling thread. It actually has a worm gear arrangement, so it may well work. I really should screw it to a chunk o wood and test though... Maybe I'll do that... Anyhow, if it's all terrible I've only lost $100 or so. I just didn't want to spend $200+ per bridge on something that is an experiment.

BTW, I had a look at your uberJ. Awesome stuff. Really nice. What did you do for string anchors on the back of the headstock?

renniw · #12 06-15-2011, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miziomix

Curious to see how it works out with that bridge. I saw them on ebay and decided to pass.
Don't mean to be harsh, but in ten years in Asia and three in China whatever I bough that was made in China invariably ended up in the trash bin. Until I finally got it. I sincerely hope this time it's different

I got one in black.

IMO not good, but not bad either.

I had a bit of work to do to make the tuners operate without too much "tension" on them.

A bit of sanding, with files and sandpaper, a lost of grease (elbow and real grease)and it's almost above average.

But, for 48$ i can't complain...

reverendrally · #13 06-15-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renniw

But, for 48$ i can't complain...

pretty much what I was thinking...

miziomix · #14 06-15-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverendrally

... BTW, I had a look at your uberJ. Awesome stuff. Really nice. What did you do for string anchors on the back of the headstock?

Thanks! I make my own anchors and since recently my own tuning system too. The cost of good headless systems out there was certainly a motivation. But in my case design was the driving factor. I'll start using the bridge on my next build.

IMHO the anchor/tuning kit is the most important part of the headless design. Unreliable tuning would make the bass completely worthless. I'd rather stick to traditional tuners, they're unreliable enough

No intention to hijack your thread and I'm in no way ranting here. Just.... been there

I cant' wait to see the progress of your build. It's a cool project