DIY headless tuners.

Arx · #1 06-29-2008, 02:36 PM

I want to build my next bass as a fanned fret headless. It seems most of the headless bridges have the bridge portion attached to the tuner, so won't work for a fanned fret.

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced headless tuner assembly which doesn't have the bridge attached?

If not I'll probably have to build my own. It shouldn't be a problem, but one thing I'm not too sure of is how much travel is actually required for the tuner.

If anyone here has a Steinberger or something, could you do a huge favour and measure the difference in position between the string being loose (when you install the string), to it being up to pitch (whichever string takes the most adjustment.

-Nick

scottyd · #2 06-29-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arx

I want to build my next bass as a fanned fret headless. It seems most of the headless bridges have the bridge portion attached to the tuner, so won't work for a fanned fret.

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced headless tuner assembly which doesn't have the bridge attached?

If not I'll probably have to build my own. It shouldn't be a problem, but one thing I'm not too sure of is how much travel is actually required for the tuner.

If anyone here has a Steinberger or something, could you do a huge favour and measure the difference in position between the string being loose (when you install the string), to it being up to pitch (whichever string takes the most adjustment.

-Nick

I've built a few sets of headless tuners. If you check out this thread there are some pictures and info about how I did it on this particular bass. Good luck!

-Scott
New build headless 6 string singlecut

Mikey R · #3 06-29-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arx

Does anyone know of a reasonably priced headless tuner assembly which doesn't have the bridge attached?

would individual bridge pieces / tuners work? status sell these:

http://www.status-graphite.com/

scottyd · #4 06-29-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey R

would individual bridge pieces / tuners work? status sell these:

http://www.status-graphite.com/

Good luck getting those any time soon!

Arx · #5 06-29-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey R

would individual bridge pieces / tuners work? status sell these:

http://www.status-graphite.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyd

Good luck getting those any time soon!

Yeah, I'd considered something like that, though they are a tad pricey, and "Temporarily unavailable"

-Nick

Edit: Actually, screw pricey.. I'd probably grab them anyways, if I could get them.

Triad · #6 06-30-2008, 03:16 AM

You should e-mail Status. Rob Green is always extremely kind and helpful and I'm sure he will help you.

anechoic · #7 06-30-2008, 03:29 PM

There was another thread somewhere (and I can't remember whether it was here or projectguitar.com) where someone else had a little tutorial on making headless tuners. I found it via google originally, but I haven't been able to dig it up again. It had a bunch of illustrations done in what looked like MS Paint. Anyone remeber this?

scottyd · #8 06-30-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anechoic

There was another thread somewhere (and I can't remember whether it was here or projectguitar.com) where someone else had a little tutorial on making headless tuners. I found it via google originally, but I haven't been able to dig it up again. It had a bunch of illustrations done in what looked like MS Paint. Anyone remeber this?

That was me it went something like this:

Ok heres goes, any questions just let me know, I think its all in order

Arx · #9 07-01-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

You should e-mail Status. Rob Green is always extremely kind and helpful and I'm sure he will help you.

I sent a message from their web page. No word yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyd

That was me it went something like this:

Ok heres goes, any questions just let me know, I think its all in order

Yeah, I had a very similar plan in mind already. The thing that I still needed to decide on is the length of travel necessary.

Did you solder the threaded rod to the string holding part? Otherwise I'd worry about it unscrewing when loosening to change strings etc. Wouldn't be a big deal if it did fall apart, but better if it doesn't.

How far do yours adjust from fully loose to fully tight. Is the adjustment excessive, and could be made a bit smaller, or just right?

-Nick

asad137 · #10 07-02-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arx

Did you solder the threaded rod to the string holding part? Otherwise I'd worry about it unscrewing when loosening to change strings etc. Wouldn't be a big deal if it did fall apart, but better if it doesn't.

If you did that, it wouldn't work! The string tensioner moves along the threads to adjust the tension.

Alternatively, you could thread the holes in the 'tuner body', but you'd need to allow the threaded rod to rotate freely AND apply axial force to the string tensioner (i.e. using c-clips or something). And then you'd have the disadvantage that the knobs would also move axially as you threaded them in and out.

Asad

Arx · #11 07-02-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asad137

If you did that, it wouldn't work! The string tensioner moves along the threads to adjust the tension.

Alternatively, you could thread the holes in the 'tuner body', but you'd need to allow the threaded rod to rotate freely AND apply axial force to the string tensioner (i.e. using c-clips or something). And then you'd have the disadvantage that the knobs would also move axially as you threaded them in and out.

Asad

No, I believe the threads stay stationary, and the adjuster nut moves, pulling the threaded rod in. That makes more sense to me anyways. You could have it attached at the adjustment nut instead, but then the part that holds the string would need to be longer to give the rod somewhere thread into when you tighten it, instead of out into the nut, which is wasted space anyhow.

-Nick

scottyd · #12 07-02-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arx

No, I believe the threads stay stationary, and the adjuster nut moves, pulling the threaded rod in. That makes more sense to me anyways. You could have it attached at the adjustment nut instead, but then the part that holds the string would need to be longer to give the rod somewhere thread into when you tighten it, instead of out into the nut, which is wasted space anyhow.

-Nick

In that design the string holder is stationary, the knob actually acts as a nut to pull it back. The needed travel it takes to pull a string is about 1/2" at the most. To answer you other question, I use lock tight on the threads of the string holder to make sure the holder does not back out whenever the strings are loosened. I've also used a jam nut which works well too. Good luck!

THSL · #13 07-02-2008, 03:12 PM

You could also try ETS...

Arx · #14 07-02-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyd

In that design the string holder is stationary, the knob actually acts as a nut to pull it back. The needed travel it takes to pull a string is about 1/2" at the most. To answer you other question, I use lock tight on the threads of the string holder to make sure the holder does not back out whenever the strings are loosened. I've also used a jam nut which works well too. Good luck!

Cool. I'll probably just stake it with a prick punch. That's probably the quickest way to keep it in place It shouldn't ever have that much resistance on it. Should be a piece of cake.

Now that I know the travel needed I can make it a sane size too.
That was really the biggest question. I'm trying to build a fairly compact bass (I'd like this one to fit in a standard case), so I didn't want an unnecessarily large bridge wasting space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by THSL

You could also try ETS...

Any links for this one? Especially anyone where I can buy it from who potentially has stock?

scottyd · #15 07-02-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arx

Cool. I'll probably just stake it with a prick punch. That's probably the quickest way to keep it in place It shouldn't ever have that much resistance on it. Should be a piece of cake.

Now that I know the travel needed I can make it a sane size too.
That was really the biggest question. I'm trying to build a fairly compact bass (I'd like this one to fit in a standard case), so I didn't want an unnecessarily large bridge wasting space.

Any links for this one? Especially anyone where I can buy it from who potentially has stock?

Glad that helped, When you string the bass up if you pull the string tension as tight as possible by hand before locking the retainer at the head piece you'll be suprised on how little it takes to pull the stings to tune.

The only thing is each string requires a different amount. Some as little as 1/4" but 1/2" will give you plenty of play room. Be sure to post pics!!

Arx · #16 07-02-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyd

Glad that helped, When you string the bass up if you pull the string tension as tight as possible by hand before locking the retainer at the head piece you'll be suprised on how little it takes to pull the stings to tune.

The only thing is each string requires a different amount. Some as little as 1/4" but 1/2" will give you plenty of play room. Be sure to post pics!!

I will post pics of course. That's in the range I expected, but it's good to have confirmation. A lot of work to go through to find out you're 1/16" short.

-Nick

THSL · #17 07-02-2008, 11:13 PM

http://ets-hardware.com/

They are based in Germany. Everything is made to order...

I went through Greg Holmes of GH Services in Canada...

http://ghservices.com/

He is a dealer for Basslab Basses in North America. They have some readily available string locks too...

Keep in mind that ETS is slow... I waited about 8 months for my hardware if I remember correctly...

asad137 · #18 07-03-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arx

No, I believe the threads stay stationary, and the adjuster nut moves, pulling the threaded rod in. That makes more sense to me anyways. You could have it attached at the adjustment nut instead, but then the part that holds the string would need to be longer to give the rod somewhere thread into when you tighten it, instead of out into the nut, which is wasted space anyhow.

-Nick

Yep, you're absolutely right, I didn't understand the drawings. Clever design.

Asad

Arx · #19 07-03-2008, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THSL

http://ets-hardware.com/

They are based in Germany. Everything is made to order...

I went through Greg Holmes of GH Services in Canada...

http://ghservices.com/

He is a dealer for Basslab Basses in North America. They have some readily available string locks too...

Keep in mind that ETS is slow... I waited about 8 months for my hardware if I remember correctly...

Well, considering I plan on having the bass done within 3-4 months tops, I guess I'll just build my own.

I really feel weird about spending a few hundred bucks on bridges anyways.

-Nick

Arx · #20 07-07-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triad

You should e-mail Status. Rob Green is always extremely kind and helpful and I'm sure he will help you.

I did get a reply from him. He says he's working on getting an improved version, but no timeframe yet.

I'll be going the DIY route at this point. I don't want to pay $65 a piece for the ABMs from allparts.

There is one on ebay that I'm almost tempted to try, but I have a feeling it's probably junk. http://cgi.ebay.ca/Bass-Electric-Gui...QQcmdZViewItem

Has anyone tried one of these? I found a post about a "starfire" headless bass. One of the replies said that he owned the same bass under a different brand ant that the bridge was really terrible.

It looks to me like the same bridge, so I'll steer clear, unless anyone has tried one and can tell me otherwise (it would save a lot of work).

Of course I couldn't do a fanned fret with that, but that's low on my list of criteria for this bass anyways.

-Nick