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  #1  
Old 04-08-2008, 12:50 AM
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A fan six string and two sister four strings.

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A while ago I posted some stuff about building a six string fan fret bass and here we go! I have also been curious about all the "wood effects tone" discussions revolving around electric instruments. So I will also be building one light weight four string with a spruce neck through, curly redwood body and a "to be determined" top and another more standard material curly maple through neck with ash body and a super rare idunnowhatitis burl top. All will have cocobolo fret boards and exactly the same pickups, pre-amps etc. Then I can make at least one 1-1 comparison to see how much of a difference there is.

So, here are the three necks to start. I usually don't taper the necks until after the truss rod has been routed so I have a parallel edge to work from, but this time I was kind of tight on material and couldn't afford to do that with the two spruce necks. The four string spruce is in the center and has the truss rod and two carbon fiber rods on it. The Maple neck is to the left with the clear plexiglass neck template on it and the one on the right is for the six string with it's template on it.



The hot rod truss rods that I get from Stew Mac are slightly less than 1/4" wide. To accommodate this I took a 1/4" core box bit (round nose) with a single flute and ground it to size by "eyeball". Note, this was not a carbide bit! Worked like a charm.



The maple neck could be routed with a simple fence attached to the base of the router, but the tapered necks needed a little more effort. I cut a straight edge that I could screw and clamp to the neck in an appropriate location so that the collar could ride on it. I used screws in areas that were to be cut off or covered later.



Then I tapered the Maple neck and routed two channels for carbon rods in each using a fence clamped to the router base and a 1/8" down spiral bit.



Now, making a straight scarf is fairly straight forward with a typical neck, but lot's of variables come into play when you have an angled nut with a fan fret. I feel it is necessary to have a similar break angle across all of the strings across the nut and as such it requires a compound angle on the peg head. So this is what I came up with.



The saw left a good but rough cut so I used a good sharp plane to clean it up before joining it to the neck.

Rather than try and duplicate the angle on the neck and try to align it perfectly I opted to dry clamp it where I wanted it and then drilled and inserted bamboo skewers as locating dowels prior to glue up. These won't be seen even if I did drill all the way through because I plan on veneering both the front and back of this peg head.





Then cut off and plane close to shape. I didn't take this all the way down yet since I still have to install the carbon fiber and the filler pieces at each side of the neck.



Then it's clamp in the carbon fiber. I use rods from Dragon Plate. Good folks and great product. The aluminum bar is a left over from an old Rockwell Unifence. Very straight and stiff to hold things flat as I clamp them up.



I tried something new this time. I typically glue these in with epoxy, but that leaves a mess and if you don't get the amount just right you can have even bigger problems. This time I used a slow set CA gel. It was soooo easy to apply and had good open time. No mess to clean up except a very tiny squeeze out at the end that cleaned up easily with acetone.



Now, those are photos from the last week or so of work. Don't go expecting me to go gangbusters like some people do around here.

All questions are welcome. If I can answer them or not.

Greg N
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Last edited by Nelson Guitars : 04-08-2008 at 07:21 AM.
  #2  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:44 AM
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Very nice! I'll keep an eye on the progress of these instruments, they do sound like interesting projects.
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2008, 09:17 AM
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Greg do you use dowels in all your scarf joints? In the last pic the maple neck in the front seem that you use two dowels too.

About the multiscale neck... why not use two nuts? One would be the angled one and the second one at the edge of the fretboard as usually on none-multiscale guitars so you can get the same break angle on all the strings. The second nut would need to be filed deeper though. That way you wouldnt have to make an angled scarf joint. I was planning to do that on a second project I been working on (only on my mind so far) and I guess this is a perfect oportunity for me to ask someone MUCH more experienced than me.
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  #4  
Old 04-08-2008, 09:56 PM
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I use locating pins for many operations. The bamboo works great but very small dowels work fine too. I have even used small finish nails and removed them after the glue has dried. If you look closely at the first picture you can see a sewing pin in the maple neck right at the cross hairs of the neck center line and the nut. There is another at the theoretical scale length and neck center at the other end but you can't see it. I use these all the time for many alignment operations. When I get to gluing the fretboards on you will see that I drill for and set these pins in at least two frets to keep things from sliding around as I clamp up the FB. Then it is a simple matter of pulling them out once the glue has dried.

I am not sure I am getting the two nut detail you are talking about. The fan fret is necessarily an angled nut or a series of stepped nuts and frets. Now that would be something. Hell trying to bend a note though!

Greg N
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2008, 12:04 AM
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I have had some repair work interfering with these builds, but I did manage to get a little done during the week.

I have been installing the peg head side extensions piece by piece as time allowed during the week and tonight I started bringing them flush with the face.

Here is the fan fret peg head with the filler/wings attached.



First thing to do is get rid of the bulk of the material. I do this with a plane and carefully watch where the cuts are going. I like the Japanese style planes for this work because I can rest the toe of the plane on the peg head and that automatically lines up the blade in the proper plane regardless of orientation of the piece being cut.



I have to avoid the carbon fiber rods since they will dull a blade with even minimal contact. The final leveling is done with a flat hard block with some 150 grit attached to half of it. This allows me to again index the cut off the existing peg head so as not to change the angle as I grind the last bit into alignment.



Even with this system I still have to be careful and watch my layout marks as I cut. It is really easy to move through this process and all of a sudden discover that the line where the peg head meets the nut is no longer square. Or in this instance at the intended angle.

A word of caution to anyone using carbon fiber. The dust from this material is very dangerous to inhale. By all means use a dust mask and if you can have a fan drawing air away from you and outside (where others are not). Vacuum up the debris as soon as you make it and then be cautious when emptying the bag.

Greg N
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2008, 01:44 AM
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Looking good Greg!
May I ask who all these are for?
The sixer for Arthur?
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2008, 09:41 AM
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where do you find the SLO-ZAP? I've looked at both of our local woodworking shops (Rockler and Woodcraft), so I'm guessing maybe a hobby store that specializes in RC airplanes ... maybe?

I haven't minded the epoxy mess too much, but for cases where I'm short on time this could be a very interesting substitute

all the best,

R
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2008, 09:55 AM
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Hi Gabe,
Yes, the fan is for Arthur. The other two will be available once I have them complete and have finished with my analysis of the two woods and their effect (significant or minor) on the tone of the two instruments. You know, there is no such thing as owning just one bass. Should I put your name on one?

Rodent,
The slow Zap came from Gunnings Hobby in San Anselmo CA. Great model train and RC hobby shop. Steve would be happy to send you some if you can't find it locally.

Greg N
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2008, 10:22 AM
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Hard to tell from the photos, but is the headstock at a compound angle? Here's one I'm working on at the moment. No scarf joint, but I really had to put my thinking cap on.



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  #10  
Old 04-12-2008, 03:40 PM
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It really is hard to tell from photos. I tried to do a better job of describing what I am doing but failed after I realized it was becoming an essay that no one would want to wade through. So then I decided to take some pictures that might illustrate it better.

I think these two photo's show what I am trying to say. The one on the left is not a fan fret but it shows the peg head in the traditional parallel to the fret board orientation. Because I wanted the break angle over the nut (actually the zero fret in this instance) to be the same it caused the peg head to rotate slightly out of the traditional orientation to the fret board.





A necessary evil if you don't want to have different break angles.

From the look of your photo you have opted for a more shallow break angle at the treble side than the bass side. Is that correct? Not that one is better than the other. Just curious. By doing what I have done I have the added pleasure of having to predict the angle of the pull of the string not at the face of the peg head but about 1/4" above the face of the peg head as that is where the string will meet the capstan (peg) of the tuning machine.

Greg N
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2008, 05:55 PM
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Nice Kanna nelson!
  #12  
Old 04-12-2008, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Guitars View Post
From the look of your photo you have opted for a more shallow break angle at the treble side than the bass side. Is that correct? Not that one is better than the other. Just curious. By doing what I have done I have the added pleasure of having to predict the angle of the pull of the string not at the face of the peg head but about 1/4" above the face of the peg head as that is where the string will meet the capstan (peg) of the tuning machine.
No, both sides of the headstock are at the same angle. That's what gives it that compound twisted look.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2008, 08:40 PM
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How did you cut the angle Bud? By hand like Greg or did you use a jig?
  #14  
Old 04-12-2008, 09:04 PM
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How did you cut the angle Bud? By hand like Greg or did you use a jig?

I established the nut angle, then traced the tilt-back angle on the sides of the neck blank using a template I made for a 13 degree tilt-back. I made two marks on the end of the neck blank where the lines I traced on the sides ran out. I tilted the bandsaw deck so the blade lined up with those two marks on the end. I freehanded the cut and cleaned it up on the belt sander. It wasn't as complicated as I thought it was going to be. I then set up a fence and thicknessed the headstock. I think I had to bust out the hand saw to cut all the way through because of the funky angle. Making the volute on the back of the headstock with the beltsander was kind of a pain, but it worked well.
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  #15  
Old 04-12-2008, 09:11 PM
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Hard to tell from the photos, but is the headstock at a compound angle? Here's one I'm working on at the moment. No scarf joint, but I really had to put my thinking cap on.



that's pretty cool, bud...the stacked laminates like that are often used on building the heels (and headstocks) of acoustic guitar necks.
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  #16  
Old 04-12-2008, 10:30 PM
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that's pretty cool, bud...the stacked laminates like that are often used on building the heels (and headstocks) of acoustic guitar necks.

This isn't stacked. That's just pencil lines you're seeing. I must have been doodling trying to figure out how I was going to cut that compound angle. I glue up large, double blanks that I cut two necks from.
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2008, 12:20 AM
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Next steps.

Today I pulled out some of that burl I sliced up two years ago for peg heads and flattened it out with my iron. Amazing how easily these potato chips flatten out.



The next series shows the face veneer already joined and glued and sanded. I am backing it up with a sheet of black dyed veneer for looks and strength. If you look carefully you can see the pins I use to hold the veneer in place while I clamp up. I locate them where two of the tuners will be so I don't even have to worry about pin holes.







Then I plane off the excess at the fret board close and finish off with sand paper on a hard block. The paper is self sticking and I only put it on half the block so that the other half can ride on the neck for alignment without grinding any away.



I made this jig a while ago for routing the truss rod adjustment nut pocket quickly and cleanly. Works slick.



I will be putting a black veneer on the back of the peghead as well. This is both for strength and it's bitchin' looking too. First I set up my Wagner Safe T Planer and a jig to taper the neck. Lot's of bass builders these days don't do this but I find a slight thickening as you climb up the neck helps in a tactile way to orient just where you are. Stand up players depend on this so why not do it for electrics!



Then I thin down the peg head a bit with the Wagner and finish it off with my little home made drum sander.





The drum sander leaves a curve that I will use for a small volute detail later. I glued up the veneers in a similar fashion to the face veneer and didn't take photos.

If the peg head details look large that is because they are. I will be leaving these big for the moment and do a final shaping later.

Thanks for looking!

Greg N

P.S. Sorry about changing necks mid post there. Went from the sitka fan fret to the 4 string maple neck. What was I thinking?
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Last edited by Nelson Guitars : 04-14-2008 at 12:23 AM.
  #18  
Old 04-14-2008, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nelson Guitars View Post
That's a slick little machine there. I've been wanting to build one for a long time for that exact job. I've been using a stationary belt sander, which works OK. What are you using for the drum.
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
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Making the volute on the back of the headstock with the beltsander was kind of a pain, but it worked well.
Bud can you post a pic of the volute?
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2008, 09:30 AM
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I use this little home made job more often and for more things than my big Delta Power fed unit. If I had to give up one or the other I think I would keep this.

Greg N

Just saw the question about the drum. It is a 3/4" shaft covered with oak and turned true on a lathe. Then I made it even more true by gluing sand paper to a block and running it face up on the table. Since then I have seen people making a series of disks out of MDF with a hole saw and then stacking them up together. Lot's easier than what I did.

GN
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Last edited by Nelson Guitars : 04-16-2008 at 11:27 PM.
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