Fender Jazz Fretless Conversion

Willicious · #1 11-11-2009, 10:28 PM

So I'm getting close to converting a Classic 60s Jazz to fretless.
I've done quite a bit of research both on and off TB on the subject,
and I've seen numerous threads on the basics of how it's done,
so I'm pretty good there.

The issue is this:
I want to take the factory fretted neck, remove the frets, fill the
fret slots with rosewood veneer, and totally hide the previous fret lines.
All of the fretless conversion threads / articles I've seen show guys
using maple to accentuate fretlines.

Is it possible to totally hide the lines, and create the appearance
of one long smooth fingerboard?

Anyone done it?

Nic. · #2 11-11-2009, 10:31 PM

I attempted to. Filled my dark coloured fretboard with dark coloured wood filler, and for good measure, I wiped it down with very dark brown wood dye. From a distance and/or right angles, mine can't be seen. However, at certain angles when it catches the light a certain way, it becomes visible again. I don't think it's possible to get it perfectly gone unless you cover the entire board with a veneer or filler, and that somewhat defeats the purpose. But you can get it invisible enough for all practical purposes.

Willicious · #3 11-12-2009, 01:15 AM

Thanks for your advice Nic. That's what I was afraid of.
I may just order up an unfinished AllParts ebony neck
and handle the finishing myself. That'll probably work
better in the long run.

**RedsFan75** · #4 11-12-2009, 11:22 AM

You could fill the slots then get the dye from Stew-mac and make it go away. 'Ebonize' it so to speak. You will also need to put the side dot's in the proper place if you make the lines go away.

Depends on how much effort you want to put into it.

I've done it before and can provide some pics if you're interested.

Willicious · #5 11-12-2009, 01:43 PM

Reds, I'd like to see your photos definitely.

I've got a bottle of Fiebing's fingerboard dye
from another project, so that's good to go.
Having not pulled the trigger on this yet, I'd
say my biggest cosmetic concern is having
the rosewood grain running the length of the
board, and the rosewood veneer strips for
fret slots running @ 90° angles to that. Getting
all of that surface difference to fill in and behave
sounds like quite a challenge.

Pics!!

Willicious · #6 11-13-2009, 01:31 AM

Or, I might be money ahead to store the stock fretted neck and go with one of these fretless ebony necks from AllParts.
What do you guys think?

**RedsFan75** · #7 11-13-2009, 11:35 PM

The allparts might be a good option depending on how much effort you're looking to go into....

Here's the start...
Guy I got it from wasn't the defretter, but he did use the stain to try and cover the bad fret pulls.

Took the stain off and sanded it down with a 10" radius block saving the rosewood dust.

Then I took the dots out, replacing them with the rosewood dust and wood glue.

Ebonized with the dye.

Polished and sealed with CA (superglue)

The rosewood had been sanded pretty thin when I got it, and by the time I finished, It was even thinner, so I took WFret and measured for the dots and drilled into the maple for the position markers.

And on the finished bass

Willicious · #8 11-14-2009, 12:16 AM

Thanks for the photos–that really helps me see just what's involved.
Looks like I'm either going to be either modding a fretted neck (like you)
or springing for an All Parts neck and hand shaping / thinning the back
of the neck to approximate the profile on a Classic 60s Jazz.

Might be a bit yet, but I'll post images of what I end up doing.

Thanks for your help ( and gorgeous bass!!! )

Willicious · #9 02-01-2010, 03:29 AM

Hey guys, thought I'd share with you what I ended up doing.
After a lot of thinking about my options, I decided to de-fret, fill the slots and dot markers, and see how clean I could get the fingerboard.
As you can see by the mock-up, it's not finished yet, but so far I'm pretty stoked with the results. Will post again when it's all buttoned up and perdy looking.

Nic and Reds, thanks again for posting your experiences and images.

Fingerboard is finished in black matte lacquer, with semi-gloss poly top coat. Once fully cured,
I plan on hitting the board with 000 steel wool to cut the shine and give it a finger friendly satin finish.

Deciding factors for going the defret route:
keeping the original neck with its sweet profile, and the cool retro decal.

masterfader87 · #10 02-06-2010, 09:07 PM

nice job man that looks great

A-Step-Towards · #11 02-06-2010, 10:04 PM

That looks amazing , seriously.

Willicious · #12 02-06-2010, 11:44 PM

thanks for the comments guys.
i'm still working on the clear coat, and learning a lot right now by trial and a fair amount of error. but, it'll be done in the next few days once the poly clear coats fully cure.

can't wait to finish up this neck, install new NJ4s and stack knobs, and get my mwah on.

**pnut166** · #13 02-10-2010, 05:30 AM

Dude, that doesn`t even look real ! I mean, you`d think on a board that shiny, you could see some sort of lines. But - nothing !!! Hats off to you, sir. A+++ job !!!

Rocky McD · #14 02-10-2010, 09:44 AM

Totally invisible? Not likely. Even if you get the color correct, you still have wood grain direction difference.
Rocky

J. Crawford · #15 02-10-2010, 09:48 AM

Whoa, that looks like a photoshop mockup, its almost too good to be real!! Wow!

Willicious · #16 02-10-2010, 11:26 AM

Thanks for the comments, guys.
I'm currently waiting for my finish coat (satin poly) to fully cure.
It's taking longer than I expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky McD

Totally invisible? Not likely. Even if you get the color correct, you still have wood grain direction difference.
Rocky

True.
You cannot keep the woodgrain when you do this.
When finished, my fingerboard will be completely
smooth—no lines, no dots, etc.—and the grain
completely gone.

The only way to go fretless w/o lines and keep your
woodgrain would be to go the new neck route, or
break out the hyde glue and thin ebony veneer.

**colcifer** · #17 02-10-2010, 09:23 PM

will you use round wounds or flats?

Willicious · #18 02-10-2010, 11:05 PM

^ ^
I will be using TI Jazz Flats. Love em!

Nic. · #19 02-11-2010, 07:56 PM

Wow, sweet job on the neck. Much, much better than the result on mine! TIJFs are awesome, using them on my defret too.

Willicious · #20 04-28-2010, 03:56 AM

well, after two more months of noobing my way through my first fretless conversion, i'm far enough along that i'm calling it "done." still needs a nut and full setup.

changes, and things learned since february:

> sanded off spray poly topcoat; wouldn't cure completely, no matter how long i left it alone. frustrating, to say the least.

> went with 4 layers of mirror coat over the original lacquer color coats, then lots of sanding. followed by even more sanding.

> had to buy stewmac 18" long, 7-1/4" radiused sanding beam. the only way i could insure a flat, even fingerboard along the axis. first tried the stewmac 8" long block, but found it too difficult to maintain even downward pressure along the length of the neck.

> for this type of fretless conversion, mirror coat is a great way to go. from what i've read here on tb, using epoxy also helps counteract the rosewood's warmer sound, lending more definition to the sound. i can't verify this either way, and really don't care.

> this thing sounds really freaking cool. post-setup, gonna slap on some pyramid tapewounds and individual string mutes. can't wait to hear that sound.

thought i would share a few additional images:
(pardon filthy fingerboard — i can't keep my hands off this thing)

cheers!

note skyscraper-like height of my temporary nut.
this thing has the action of an upright.