fretboard for 32" scale

[cervusflies]

I am trying to get a slotted, 32", 12" radius, 20 fret, ebony fretboard. I tried Luthier's Mercantile, but they only had 30" and 34" available. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I might be able to attain what I need?

Thanks.

[Joth]

Forgive my crude approach, but if you take a 34" scale fretboard, and use the 1st fret slot as the nut line, you will find that it is very close to 32".
Of course a 12" rad ebony 34" board is readily available. I know Stewmac has them.

[cervusflies]

Originally Posted by Joth

Forgive my crude approach, but if you take a 34" scale fretboard, and use the 1st fret slot as the nut line, you will find that it is very close to 32".
Of course a 12" rad ebony 34" board is readily available. I know Stewmac has them.

Crude maybe, but efficient nonetheless. I've heard this response a few times actually, so I will discuss with my luthier.

Thanks for your response.

[erikbojerik]

Originally Posted by cervusflies

Crude maybe, but efficient nonetheless.

The difference is 0.092" spread out over 32". Not exactly "crude" I'd say.

[cervusflies]

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

The difference is 0.092" spread out over 32". Not exactly "crude" I'd say.

So would a +-0.092" difference effect the intonation at all?

[Joth]

No you simply measure the nut to 12th fret distance and calculate the bridge location as normal. I did this recently when designing my first short scale, starting with a 34" scale fretboard, I had the choice of using the first fret line for a ~32" scale, or the 2nd fret line for a ~30.25" scale.
Years ago I realized fenders short scale 24" guitars were as a 25.5" shortened by one fret.

[cervusflies]

Originally Posted by Joth

No you simply measure the nut to 12th fret distance and calculate the bridge location as normal. I did this recently when designing my first short scale, starting with a 34" scale fretboard, I had the choice of using the first fret line for a ~32" scale, or the 2nd fret line for a ~30.25" scale.
Years ago I realized fenders short scale 24" guitars were as a 25.5" shortened by one fret.

This is the solution for me, me thinks. Thanks, Joth.

So the width at nut will be slightly more than 1.50"?
Very slightly, indeed. I will order up my fretboard and then trim off the first fret space. Hmm... will this leave enough room for the nut slot? I guess I just calculate that depth from the back of the 1st fret slot where I trim from, and leave enough for the nut slot?

[Joth]

Yes exactly, you can cut away in between the nut slot and first fret on the 34" scale, and convert the former first fret slot into the new nut slot. In my current project I actually left that slot for a zero fret instead of a 1/8" nut slot, making the nut slot behind it. Thats another option

[The Penguin]

If you use the first fret slot for a nut your nut will be placed one half of the width of a fret slot too close to the bridge. If you use the first fret as a new zero fret location it will be perfect.

Also blanks are sold extra wide so you decide if it's 1.5 or a little wider at the nut end.

[cervusflies]

Originally Posted by The Penguin

If you use the first fret slot for a nut your nut will be placed one half of the width of a fret slot too close to the bridge.

So would I then compensate for that length by bringing the bridge in that lost amount?

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by cervusflies

So would I then compensate for that length by bringing the bridge in that lost amount?

No, because your bridge is going to be adjusted anyway for intonation. Your bridge or zero fret must be in the proper position with respect to the other frets, which are not moving anywhere.

So, if you want to use a nut and want to correct for the half-fret-slot-too-close, all you do is seat the nut against the wall of the fret groove, and cut/grind/etc back the upper (projecting, string-touching) portion of the nut by the .011" that is half a fret groove width.

[The Penguin]

... or glue an .011 shim on the end of the fingerboard. I prefer the zero fret myself

If you make the shim out of purpleheart or wenge you can call it a tone shim and claims it increases resofundamentalisance.

[smokehouse]

You could make your own fretboard using a fretboard template at www.scalelength.com Check out the free downloads for a 20" scale length sample.

[Manual_Combat]

considering how imperfect equal temperament is, i'm curious as to how in or out of tune that would be.

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by Manual_Combat

considering how imperfect equal temperament is, i'm curious as to how in or out of tune that would be.

For a 32" scale instrument, the nut being .011 off would result in intonation errors of up to 2.4 cents at the 24th fret. In general your fret placement accuracy requirement increases as you go up to the higher-pitched frets. But, assuming you tune and intonate using open strings, the nut or zero fret becomes the base position reference so that functionally, the nut or zero fret is on, and then all the other frets are off.

And this is all regardless of any implications of temperament. Any issues with temperament systems are worsened by an instrument that doesn't produce the pitches it was designed to produce (e.g. having the nut off may give you an improved minor third on your A string fourth and sixteenth frets when playing in Bb minor, but at the expense of nearly every other tone of that key, and every other key, and relationships to the other strings.)

[cervusflies]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

For a 32" scale instrument, the nut being .011 off would result in intonation errors of up to 2.4 cents at the 24th fret. In general your fret placement accuracy requirement increases as you go up to the higher-pitched frets. But, assuming you tune and intonate using open strings, the nut or zero fret becomes the base position reference so that functionally, the nut or zero fret is on, and then all the other frets are off.

And this is all regardless of any implications of temperament. Any issues with temperament systems are worsened by an instrument that doesn't produce the pitches it was designed to produce (e.g. having the nut off may give you an improved minor third on your A string fourth and sixteenth frets when playing in Bb minor, but at the expense of nearly every other tone of that key, and every other key, and relationships to the other strings.)

I think I'll just cross my fingers. Because what you just said means nothing to me. I feel pretty blissfully right now if you know what I mean.

[bppubjr]

"...intonation errors of up to 2.4 cents at the 24th fret."

If this is accurate (I didn't do the math myself), then you don't really have anything to worry about. Four cents is generally accepted to be the minimum perceptible interval at 1 kHz (which is over an octave above the highest note on a typical 4 string bass), increasing as the pitch decreases. It's been shown to be as high as 50 cents at 60 Hz.

[pilotjones]

The math is from the fretfind site, which I believe to be accurate.

The problem with "2.4 cents is OK because you can only hear 4 cents or more" is that now you're starting with a note that's 2.4 cents sharp due to fret/nut placement, then you may be adding (if it's in the same sharp direction)a few cents of your own tuning inaccuracy on the open string (no one is perfect at it, even with a tuner), and adding to that any intonation inaccuracy. The more of those things you control, the more likely you'll be in tune.

You can think of it as "if I really have to be only within 4 cents total in my tuning, there's now a given of 2.4 cents off, so I now have to tune within 1.6 cents."

[bppubjr]

While I agree that if you're trying to be as accurate as possible, you should be trying to eliminate any inaccuracies that you can control, and 2.4c is only adding to any other error that may be present, my argument is that it's not going to make a difference in the long run because compared to the other sources of error it's very small. For example, perfectly tuned equal tempered scale gives a minor third of 300c, where the mathematically correct interval is 316c. That's a big, very audible difference that a musician has to correct for himself while playing. All the other intervals are similar, in fact the closest one to being perfect is the fifth, and even it is 2c long. Also, while not as big a problem on the bass, on some guitars (mine, particularly ) the pitch can be changed by as much as a quarter-tone (50c) just from the pressure of the finger. Aside from all of this, 2.4c is the max error and that's at the 24th fret. It's going to be much less than that as you go down the fingerboard (0.6c at the first fret, I believe).

[THSL]

You might want to try Allen Guitars and Luthier Supplies. They have a fretboard slotting service with tons of different scale lengths possible:

http://www.allenguitar.com/fret_slo.htm