Fretboard refiinish after defretting

[dDaddybass]

If I were to defret a bass that has a rosewood fingerboard with the intention of using only tapewound strings, would it be necessary to apply a hardened finish. Or, will the rosewood hold up ok with the tapewounds?

[echoSE7EN]

While you're filling in the slots, you might as when seal them. Win - Win.

[Musiclogic]

It's subjective to the way you play, if you do not have a soft touch playing style, you will impart wear.(rate dependant on how often you play and how hard). A minimum of 3 coats of polyurethane is what I would reccommend just to keep the board nice, and give you a gauge for wear as you play without creating string valleys.

[allexcosta]

Rosewood should hold up for tapewounds fairly well for a few years. I would try it without any hardening first and see how the fretboard behaves, since you'd loose many benefits of having a rosewood board (tone, harmonics) if you apply a hard finish to it.

Tung oil OTOH would add some protection without affecting tone...

[Musiclogic]

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Rosewood should hold up for tapewounds fairly well for a few years. I would try it without any hardening first and see how the fretboard behaves, since you'd loose many benefits of having a rosewood board (tone, harmonics) if you apply a hard finish to it.

Tung oil OTOH would add some protection without affecting tone...

Really Allex?? Did you really say this? I think it's time for another trip to Brazil for some finish lessons.

All finishing oils, Tung, Walnut, Linseed, Teak, even "Tru-oil", are hard finishes, not just penetrants. This is where many arguements about sound and finish fall apart. Bad information provided by people conditioned to believ something they know nothing about.

And please do not go into your 25 years of playing. Or going to Brazil to apprentice at this shop.

Most oil finishes are hard finishes. Period, and very little difference in the way they protect wood with most spray finishes, they just build in a different way, and have different compositions. Both harden and seal the wood. Unlike an epoxy or polyester which act as an additional layer, and will brighten the sound by creating a solid barrier between the wood and string.

You cannot keep posting bad information based on assumption and presumption. You can't make assertions based on your playing, as one of the biggest parts of being a "luthier". Is the ability to seperate players and build, repair, or modify through the understanding of each players idiosyncracies. When you look at things from mental absolutes, you cannot tailor your opinion and work toward your customer, and thus continually fail.

And yes, I will call you on statements that I know are incorrect or assumption base. Or, In this case show a complete misunderstanding of finishes.

From my 28 years of repairing, modding, and building.

[allexcosta]

^ I've applied a thin coat of tung oil to several rosewood fretboards and it doesn't behave as a hard finish at all. If you read my post again, it says OTOH, which means it's an option.

What I'm saying is that if one leaves a bit of tung oil on a fretboard for a few minutes and removes the excess it will act as a protective coat without losing tonal qualities of the wood. I've done this and that's how it works. I'm not talking about using several coats of tung oil applied within a few days. That's a hard finish and it would affect tone.

I'm not posting based on assumption, but rather personal experience. If you got difference experience on the subject, you can always post your thoughts, since it's a free forum.

Regards...

[Musiclogic]

You keep posting Allex, I will keep explaining when what you post is incorrect.

BTW 1 coat of tung oil provides inheirently NO protection for the wood.

Jeff Jewitt has a great book about "undersatanding Wood Finishes". Which might help you to understand how finishes effect and seal wood and how it is accomplished effectively.

Next time you are in Brazil, borrow a couple necks and 1 complete body, spray on 3 coats of Polyurethane and allow to dry for 3 or 4 days, and do the same with 3 coats of Tung oil, then play both necks on the same body and record the difference with a spectrum analyzer. You'll find the only audible differences will be with the attack you play with, not the finish.

[dDaddybass]

The bass I intend using for this is about 3 years old and virtualy no play time, so, the rosewood is very dry. Is this a positive as far as preping for finish. Should it be treated with something else before sealing? Musiclogic, what specific polyurathane would you recommend?

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

You keep posting Allex, I will keep explaining when what you post is incorrect.

That's fine...

I tung-oiled this myself:



So I'm talking about personal experience. Tung-oil hydrates the board and offers a bit of protection and sealing, without losing the inherent tone of rosewood.

Then you will point me to another book saying that rosewood has no inherent tone and my experience will say otherwise.

Ok, you've been repairing for 28 years, good for you.

Just don't think I'll believe in everything you'll say if my experience tells me otherwise.

[Musiclogic]

Dave, you can use something as simple as Minwax spray polyurethane from any home store or Wally World(if you want to save a couple dollars ). Or go as high end as a PPG or DuPont automotive poly, which could be a bit of overkill for just a light sealer. Buth That is up to you. If you want a nice natural look, the Minwax "Satin", looks really natural when dry and wetsanded to 1200.

[Musiclogic]

Allex, please read up on Tung oil. It's a drying oil that is 100% acids, it isn't a hydrant, it's a drying sealant.

[dDaddybass]

Hey JC, what do you think about the dryness of the fretboard, good thing?

[Musiclogic]

I wouldn't worry about it, rosewoods retain oil naturally , and should be fine for finishing, remember to dewax and de-oil the surface after you smooth and level. Denatured alcohol or Acetone should do fine depending on your slot filler.

[dDaddybass]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

I wouldn't worry about it, rosewoods retain oil naturally , and should be fine for finishing, remember to dewax and de-oil the surface after you smooth and level. Denatured alcohol or Acetone should do fine depending on your slot filler.

Thanks for the input.

[Musiclogic]

Anytime

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

borrow a couple necks and 1 complete body, spray on 3 coats of Polyurethane and allow to dry for 3 or 4 days, and do the same with 3 coats of Tung oil, then play both necks on the same body and record the difference with a spectrum analyzer. You'll find the only audible differences will be with the attack you play with, not the finish.

I happen to own two fretless basses, one with Poly and the other one with tung oil, same woods. The tone is quite differente and the one with tung oil has more harmonics and a more natural sound. I don´t need a spectrum analyzer to hear the differences... Spectrum analyzers don´t play basses... I do...

[Musiclogic]

.....Going back to your complete lack of understanding of the test, along with build characteristics of different instruments. No matter the composition of the instruments, they will always have strong and weak points inheirent to the specific instrument.

By using the same instrument with the different finishes demonstrating on a more consistent platform the differences.

The spectrum analyzer demonstrates the spectrum comparison of each semitone thus giving you an accurate analysis of the instrument tonality as opposed to your opinion based on what you have been conditioned to think. Unfortunately your response exemplifies this conditioning and arrogance based in ignorance.

When you don't understand what you espouse, you are destined to be alone in your opinion. All it takes is a little reading and experimentation, and with that shop and all those parts available, this should be a 5 minute test.

[reverendrally]

Originally Posted by dDaddybass

If I were to defret a bass that has a rosewood fingerboard with the intention of using only tapewound strings, would it be necessary to apply a hardened finish. Or, will the rosewood hold up ok with the tapewounds?

Simple answer; YES.

I've got a TRB2 5 string with a fretless rosewood board. It's been pretty hardy even with roundwounds. I've sanded it back twice now in about 10 years and it used to be my main bass. Last time (about a month back), I cleaned it down with JD lemon oil afterwards. Worked nice.

[dDaddybass]

The bass in the foreground is the bass in question. If you compare the board with the board on the bass in the background, you can see just how dry it is. Both are rosewood BTW. I don't plan to start ripping the frets out right a way. I plan to set it up and make all adjustments before any modifications. Should I treat the board before refinishing it?

[Musiclogic]

I'll try and help you on this, Dave, and this will be my last comment. What you are seeing is not dry, but a different color. Rosewoods are not consistent in color, some pieces are darker, some lighter. You can get multiple shades of color variance depending where the piece is cut from the log.

If it will make you feel better, go ahead and take some lemon oil, or conditioner of your choice and wipe down the FB. It will darken a bit initially(not to the color of the lefty) but I am pretty sure after a few hours, it will come back to the color you see. It won't harm anything for you to put some kind of conditioner on the board to ease your mind, once you start the defretting process, you will need to sand and clean the FB before putting any kind of finish on it. Good Luck.