Freud FT3000VCE router: Overkill?

[rustynuts]

I've been building up my shop for the past couple of months in anticipation of building my own bass one day soon. Assembling parts has gotten a bit blase.

One of the things I've been shopping around for is a router and this morning I stopped in at one of the mom & pop hardware/lumber yards here in town to see what they have. They were a Freud dealer but seem to have moved on to Dewalt and Hitachi so now all the Freud stuff is on sale for quite a bit less than retail. I snagged several bits marked down from between $20 and $35 to $7.00 and $9.50. They also have a few FT3000VCE plunge routers at $212.00. The MSRP is $581.65, and the cheapest I found them online was $349.

My question is, is the FT3000VCE, at 3.25 HP, overkill for someone just learning on the router? Also, will I regret not having the fixed base option? For roughly the same money I can get a Porter Cable set with the fixed and plunge bases.

(They also have a matching router table that they had on display.)

[vbasscustom]

well, that is quite the router. it will last for a long long time, you could buy cheap ones that only lasy a year or so, and spend way more than that, in that ones life time. so i say go for it. just watch out, when you start it up it will have a bit of kick.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

^+1

That one, paired with the table, will most probably serve Your needs for a loooong time.

It seems to have a soft start, so it won't try to launch itself to the orbit every time you press the button .

I'd go for it if I was in US.

Regards
Sam

[vbasscustom]

cool. i actually said the right things!!

[mikeyswood]

That is the router that I have mounted upside down. It is a beast and it is great for the big stuff.

It is a beast and it is not great for the small stuff.

Get that one at that price and then think about getting a PC 690 for small stuff.

[PasdaBeer]

Ive seen taht router down to 150 bucks before. Honestly it seems like a decent router, i just really prefer porter cable. Also i dont really like plunge routers, but thats probly just due to all my jigs and what not have been set to fixed based stuff. The stability of some plunge routers just isnt great.

[tjclem]

I am on my second one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260435243485

When it dies I will get another if they still make them. The one I have now has been going great for over 2 years 1.5 of which I have been building full time for. To me a plunge router without a light is useless. I have a couple of Porter Cable and one Freud fixed router. Why they don't build ones with lights amazes me. Whe itcomes to fixed I like the Porter Cable......Tom

[JoeDeF]

Originally Posted by rustynuts

My question is, is the FT3000VCE, at 3.25 HP, overkill for someone just learning on the router? Also, will I regret not having the fixed base option?

If you are going to mount that router in a table and leave it there, it will be more than adequate.

However, in machining parts, I sometimes find it better to run the router over the part, rather running the part over the router table. This is a fairly hefty router for that kind of use (not that it won't work, though). I usually use a fixed base for freehand work, rather than a plunge base (just my preference), so I would sure miss the fixed base.

I would recommend the Freud FT1702VCEK, which is cheaper, has both bases, and has plenty of power (2 1/4 horses are plenty for typical use). it's also elegantly engineered with above the table height adjustment and bit change, dust collection, spindle lock, self-ejecting collet, soft start, etc. I dislike the switch, though. I have two; one of them lives in my router table, and I just got another for other dedicated jigs not related to guitar work. I picked up one on ebay for about $110. Here's one for just a bit more (I have no connection to the seller):

http://cgi.ebay.com/FREUD-FT1702VCEK-2-1-4-HP-Router-with-2-Base-Combo-Kit_W0QQitemZ300324528732QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRouter s_Bits?hash=item45ecbca25c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_t rkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318 |301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

If you really want to cover all of your router needs for $200-250, I would pick up the FT1702 kit, mount the fixed base in your table, use the plunge base for freehand work, and pick up a laminate trimmer (small router) for detail work and for areas with tight access. I would say I use a laminate trimmer for at least 35% of my routing; they're incredibly handy for roundovers and small jobs.

The "Cadillac" of laminate trimmers is the Bosch Colt, but the Porter Cable or Dewalt (now almost the same machine and company!) will work also. I have the Porter Cable 7310 kit, and the offset base, which lets you rout right up to an edge, is extremely handy to have. The tilt base is also handy.

So, if you can stretch your router budget to, say $300, get a laminate trimmer with all three bases (an "installer kit," preferably the Bosch) along with a FT1702VCEK kit, and you'll be set for a long time, and at a reasonable price.

Joe

[rustynuts]

Thanks for all the input guys, it'll certainly help me make a better choice in routers. The various types of saws, drills, presses, etc., I have experience with but the router is something I've never bothered using before.

Originally Posted by JoeDeF

However, in machining parts, I sometimes find it better to run the router over the part, rather running the part over the router table......I usually use a fixed base for freehand work, rather than a plunge base (just my preference), so I would sure miss the fixed base.

I tend to think I'll be using one run over the parts as much as I would use one in the table. Pickup and neck pockets, and things of that sort, would have to be done with the router run over the work, wouldn't it? And, for things like p'up routs, wouldn't you want to use a plunge base?

Originally Posted by JoeDeF

I would recommend the Freud FT1702VCEK....

Hmm. Another interesting option, looks to be comparable to the PC kit I saw at Lowe's.

Originally Posted by JoeDeF

I have the Porter Cable 7310 kit, and the offset base, which lets you rout right up to an edge, is extremely handy to have. The tilt base is also handy.

This morning the guy at the mom'n'pop shop was talking about the 7310/0310 and said the 0310 was the one to get. Honestly though, just about everything he was saying to me at that point was going right over my head. I'd just gotten off work, was dead tired and as noted, I really have no clue about routers.

Originally Posted by JoeDeF

So, if you can stretch your router budget to, say $300, get a laminate trimmer with all three bases (an "installer kit," preferably the Bosch) along with a FT1702VCEK kit, and you'll be set for a long time, and at a reasonable price.

Joe

My shop budget lately has been about $200-300 per week so I won't have a problem expanding a bit. I just need to decide on what will work best and will fit in what little space I have. My shop area is limited to a 12x12 room and a 4x12 hallway.

Thanks for the detailed response.

-Jerry

[T2W]

I only use my Freud for raised panel, since the raised panel bit is made by Freud also and doesnt seem to fit in any other router. Otherwise Freud is rapidly becoming one my least favorite tool line. As far as routers go... I got one word. Triton.

[JoeDeF]

Hi Jerry,

I should say first off that I am not a luthier, though I do many extremely similar woodworking operations as part of my job (I have four routers that get a lot of use). So, here are a few more words about routers and routing....

Originally Posted by rustynuts

I tend to think I'll be using one run over the parts as much as I would use one in the table. Pickup and neck pockets, and things of that sort, would have to be done with the router run over the work, wouldn't it? And, for things like p'up routs, wouldn't you want to use a plunge base?

Many operations can be done either way with templates, pin routing, and the like, but, you're right - many people will find cavity routing easier by running the router over the work.

I, personally, tend to prefer a fixed base with an accurate and sensitive depth increasing/decreasing mechanism for these operations. I prefer those like the Freud and the newest PC that let you turn a knob attached to a threaded column that moves the motor/bit, rather than those that make you turn the router motor manually through threads in the inside of the base.

It tends to be when you attempt to hog off too much in one pass that you have problems or disasters, and, even with multiple depth-stop turrets, I seem to get carried away with plunge routers and get into trouble. Using a fixed base with a great depth-adjustment mechanism, I take small, controlled cuts, and can get within a few thousandths or my target pretty easily without errors. To me, it's speed versus accuracy (others may disagree)....

Originally Posted by rustynuts

Hmm. Another interesting option, looks to be comparable to the PC kit I saw at Lowe's.

The newest PC seems to have many of the same features (though I haven't used it). Older PC routers were the standard recommendation about two generations ago, and they work great, but they lack those newer features that make work easier, faster, and safer. I listed some in my last post, but I'll reiterate and enlarge here:

•above the table height adjustment - can save time
•above the table bit change - saves tons of time, and avoids a chance to drop the motor
•dust collection - saves your lungs and lets you see the work instead of seeing chips
•spindle lock - makes bit changing easier - only need one wrench and don't skin knuckles
•self-ejecting collet - makes bit changes easier - I have to bang the collet nut of my PC with a wrench to get the bit out, and that's what PC recommends!
•soft start - much safer in handheld use, especially with larger bits
•variable speed - safer with larger bits
•multiple collets - lets you use more bits

Originally Posted by rustynuts

This morning the guy at the mom'n'pop shop was talking about the 7310/0310 and said the 0310 was the one to get.

The 0310 is more heavy duty, with a better bit depth adjustment mechanism, but the 7310 kit is far more versatile.

The offset base lets you literally rout exactly up to the edge of an obstruction (with certain bits and an easily made custom baseplate); with the 0310 you can't get any closer than the radius of the body (minus the radius of the bit). In a neck-through, think about routing the neck pickup with that fingerboard/neck overhang close by, for instance.

The tilt base lets you use the bit at an angle - this lets you cut many shapes with a few bits. Tilt the bit and the cut profile changes.

As I said before, the Bosch Colt kit is widely regarded as the best one out there with the most features, but I'm happy with the 7310.

---

You might consider getting Bill Hylton's "Woodworking with the Router" before making any purchases. Awesome book, and will teach you how to think through and execute machining operations as well. The copy I have is a bit out of date, so it does not cover some of the features listed above so well, but I think that there is a new (and pricey) hardcover out if you want the most up to date info.

Joe

[rustynuts]

Thanks again Joe. I think I'll spend a little time and do a little more research this week and buy one next week. I picked up a couple of books yesterday on eBay, including "Woodworking with the Router", but it's likely an older copy. That's fine, I'll eventually figure everything out.

Just got in from work and stopped by Lowe's. I remember when there was pretty much one or two miter saws and this morning I found options out the ying-yang. I'll pick up the miter saw this week and the router in a week or two.

Thanks again, everyone.

[rustynuts]

Well, I found a hell of a deal on a Porter Cable 694VK Variable Speed Soft Start Kit (PC690 with both bases and case), got the whole thing for less than the router alone would have cost.

Given the reputation the 690 has, I figured I couldn't go wrong with the purchase. Thanks to all for their input.